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Thread: Reinstate the Draft

  1. #49
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Outsiders, we had been pulling strings in Afghanistan for decades before 9/11. We turned an innocuous farming country into a hotbed of terrorist activity to use as our pawn against Russia, destroying the peaceful lives of hundreds of thousands of people caught in the middle. We didn't do it for humanitarian reasons; it was a move inspired totally by paranoia and cold-war-era lust for power. When they were no longer of use to us, we dropped them like a bad habit and left them to mend the damage caused by our war. They have every reason to be angry with us, as do many, many other nations. Please do some research.
    I don't know how reliable this information is but I will also agree that I do not know the full story. Could you provide some references to this information for my own reading purposes. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    What people are upset about is not that the Jews moved back, but that Israel (with the assistance of a US-sponsored hand-of-God) did so by forcibly, violently removing innocent citizens from the lands that they had lived on for generations.
    ~Joe
    That's ironic. How were the Jews removed from their homeland? You mean to tell me that Muslims didn't violently remove innocent Jewish citizens from the lands that they had lived on for generations?
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  2. #50
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    The information isn't hard to find. Here's something to get you started - I'm sure you can find more than enough information if you Google the topics mentioned here.
    That's not irony at all. Irony would be if I said that they were led away from the lands that are now Israel with offers of cotton candy and My Little Ponies. And just because the Jews were displaced over two millenia ago, before many people had even concieved of the notion of civil rights, it doesn't make it OK for them to turn around and do the same awful thing in return today. Besides that, miltary action today is far and away more lethal than similar manuevers in biblical times, so chances are that the Israelis are escalating things, not just returning the favor. This is all without considering the political and economical interests involved in the founding of modern Israel.
    And since when was eye-for-an-eye a good idea? For someone with biblical quotes in their signature, you seem to have awfully barbarous ideas about justice.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  3. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Outsiders71 @ Nov. 21 2006,1:02)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    What people are upset about is not that the Jews moved back, but that Israel (with the assistance of a US-sponsored hand-of-God) did so by forcibly, violently removing innocent citizens from the lands that they had lived on for generations.
    ~Joe
    That's ironic. How were the Jews removed from their homeland? You mean to tell me that Muslims didn't violently remove innocent Jewish citizens from the lands that they had lived on for generations?
    Actully most of the Jews that currently live in Isreal are from Europe. The Majority of the Jews in Palestine when Islam was founded converted to Islam, as did most Christians. The ones that did not were treated with respect and tollerance and only had a pay a small tax to worship their religion. Violence was not used to remove Christians or Jews from "the Holy Land", it was the christians in the Crusades who massacred the Jews, Christians, and Muslims when they took over with the approach of "kill them all and let God sort them out". In fact if you read the Qu'ran it commands Muslims not to harm "people of the book" as long as they pay the tax to continue to worship their reilgion "of the book". Is a tax completely fair, no, but it beats a bullet to the back of the head or a tank running over your house and family.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  4. #52
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Interesting, ktulu, I hadn't heard all that before.
    As for the fairness of the tax... relative to the things that went on in other civilizations at similar points in history, the Muslims should've recieved a humanitarian award for such a tolerant policy.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  5. #53
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (ktulu @ Nov. 20 2006,5:43)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Outsiders71 @ Nov. 20 2006,11:14)]We may have a VP who supports torture to get vital information from terrorists however we also have citizens who feel that these terrorists deserve the same rights as U.S. citizens. You tell me what is worse...

    Who are we to sit and watch horrendus acts such as genocide happen when we can do something to prevent millions of people from dying? Who are we to just sit there and watch starving peoples die while we have surpluses of food? Who are we to watch sickly people die because they don't have access to vaccines and medicines? Who are we to just sit around and watch the AIDS cases grow in Africa when we have the knowledge to teach and educate Africans how to avoid contracting the disease?
    What rights dont they deserve. Shouldnt they get a fair trial like everyone else without being tortured. If you torture someone long enough they will tell you what you want to hear. If these people have truley commited these crimes they will be found guilty. Germany once had party that thought some people did not derserve the same rights as everyone else. So how long before we have our conscripted soilders goosestepping through our streets and all the muslims in camps where they are forced to take "showers"? I know this is extreme but i know many people (most of them christian acting in a very unchristian way) who think that we should wipe out those evil muslims. I just fear too many people in this country would be willing to repeat the mistakes of the past as long as it was against a minority like muslims because they fear them and do not understand them.

    As for us not sitting and watching the horrors of genocide, how many soilders have we sent to Dafur? Oh thats right 0. How well has the western style "democracy" worked to stop the genocide in Iraq. How many people could feed with 2 billion dollars a week? How many could we give medical care to? What about all the people in the United States who cant afford medical care while we bleed 2 billion dollars a week into a country that doesnt want us there? What about the fact that our own government has conluded that we have made our threat of terrorist acts WORSE by our actions in Iraq and the Middle East?
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    What rights dont they deserve. Shouldnt they get a fair trial like everyone else without being tortured. If you torture someone long enough they will tell you what you want to hear. If these people have truley commited these crimes they will be found guilty.
    So if Osama was to be captured and boastfully claimed he knew some kind of terrorist attack was going to happen in the U.S. 10x the intensity of the last one, how would you get this information?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Germany once had party that thought some people did not derserve the same rights as everyone else. So how long before we have our conscripted soilders goosestepping through our streets and all the muslims in camps where they are forced to take "showers"? I know this is extreme....
    Like you said this is extreme and I don't see it happening. The problem isn't with the Muslim minority or people with Islamic faith. It's radical Islamists such as Osama who cry out Jihad on everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    As for us not sitting and watching the horrors of genocide, how many soilders have we sent to Dafur? Oh thats right 0. How well has the western style "democracy" worked to stop the genocide in Iraq. How many people could feed with 2 billion dollars a week? How many could we give medical care to?
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    What about all the people in the United States who cant afford medical care while we bleed 2 billion dollars a week into a country that doesnt want us there? What about the fact that our own government has conluded that we have made our threat of terrorist acts WORSE by our actions in Iraq and the Middle East?
    A little lesson of humility here. Even the lowest of the low here in the United States are doing much better than most of the rest of the world.

    Actually I think that analysis is wrong. We haven't been attacked (praise God) since 2001. 5 years have gone by and they haven't been able to do anything. If they could have done something they would have by now.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  6. #54
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Yeah, a lot of them did. Now they want to be left alone. We don't belong there.
    All of that is your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Yeah, I do think the terrorist deserve basic human rights. Torturing someone is terrorism as far as i'm concerned. If we torture them we are no better than they are.
    What methods of "torture" are we using and what basic human rights don't they have?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    We don't have to kill people. It's called diplomacy and education!
    I'll make sure to advice George W. to send you to negotiate with the terrorists . In all seriousness though both diplomacy and education doesn't exist inside terrorists organizations.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    What does that have to do with invading a country who doesn't want us? Nothing.
    Policing the world...
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  7. #55
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    I don't have time to read every post right now, but I'll say I support the draft because I think it's the best (only?) way to prevent stupid and corrupt leaders from starting stupid and corrupt wars. Or at least it'll prevent them from being re-elected afterwards. But only if it's a draft without college deferments
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  8. #56
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Actully Isreal rightfully belongs to the Canninites, read your bible it glorfies the Isreali massacre of the Cannintes (Dueteronomy 20:17). Also when did a religious text become the basis of estabilshing political borders? Doesnt pretty much every religion claim it has rights over the entire world, so which one do we choose.
    I wasn't basing my reasoning biblically because obviously there are many here who don't give merit to that. Historically though the Jews settled there before the Muslims.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

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