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Thread: Reinstate the Draft

  1. #57
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Outsiders71 @ Nov. 20 2006,7:22)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Yeah, a lot of them did. Now they want to be left alone. We don't belong there.
    All of that is your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    Yeah, I do think the terrorist deserve basic human rights. Torturing someone is terrorism as far as i'm concerned. If we torture them we are no better than they are.
    What methods of "torture" are we using and what basic human rights don't they have?
    Lol, when I see them on TV saying we don't belong, that's their opinion.

    We are talking about puting plastic over someone and dunking/throwing water on them to make them think they are drowning. That's torture. I'd say not being tortured is a basic human right...

  2. #58
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    If Osama were captured and started boasting about his next attack, I wouldn't worry, because our government knew about 9/11 well in advance and allowed it to happen in order to improve public sentiments towards a war on the middle east. If our goverment had wanted to stop the 9/11 hijackings, they could've. That's why we haven't had any more attacks - because we were in a position to stop them to begin with.
    The problem isn't radical jihadists. Nobody over there likes the US anymore, because we treat them like all like a bunch cartoon supervillains, trample all over their countries and openly mock their religious beliefs. Everyone is uneasy, and that mass unease makes it simple to recruit people to extremist doctrines. There have been a few extremists there forever - why didn't anything major start happing until the Gulf War? I'll tell you why; because we went over there and showed all the forward-thinking Muslims that the jihadists are right - Americans are out to take their land and destroy their religion.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  3. #59
    nepenthes_ak's Avatar
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    Also ALL the other country's would be fine if we didn't designate our selfs to Police the world. We are alot like the Spaniards were when they first met the Aztecs! They thought they were canabls and things like that. But isnt this the same time the Black plauge was goin down due to over crowding?

    The Aztecs had it figured out and were doing fine! We think these other country's need our help when allot of their culture doesn't want us to help the way we are. yea sure sending aid like MONEY and FOOD is fine, but doing what we are now isn't! People would be fine If we hadn't screwed around with Housane in the 80's and sided with him and saying we were "nuetral"

  4. #60
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

    I read that on a ratty old piece of paper somewhere.
    Me too it was behind a piece of thick glass.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    The fundamental rights of US citizens are also fundamental human rights... that's one of the beautiful things about the US.
    What we find to be fundamental human rights here in the U.S. do not apply to Terrorists. Remember the be-headings?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    A good christian should never have to be reminded that people remain human even when it becomes uncomfortable for us to consider them as such.
    A good Christian should also never judge someone because they know God is the only judge. I never applauded or said we should torture but for the sake of the debate I raised a question.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  5. #61

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    Ok, a few things:

    1) Am I the only one that remembers someone else proposing exactly the same bill about a year or two ago, as nothing more than a scare-tactic designed to raise opposition to the war by making it seem a real threat to everyone and their kids? Am I the only one who remembers it failing, as this assuredly will? It's a cheap political ploy, nothing more. $10 says it dies in committee and never even sees a vote. It's politics, not policy.

    2) IIRC, top members of the military are opposed to the draft, and say it would do no good. Gone are the days you can just put someone through 90 days of bootcamps and hand them a rifle; modern soliders take years to train due to the incredible level of technology they work with daily. A draft would mean huge numbers of unmotivated people swamping the training infrastructure, preventing any of them from getting adequate training and actually *reducing* military effectiveness because they can't use our own technology. Quality, not quantity. Why do we need 2000 troops with M-16s when we can achieve the same goal with 20 troops and a few autonomous combat vehicles? The draft is a relic of the low-tech war, and makes as much sense as trying raise a class's GPA by adding more students rather than teaching them better.

    Now, as for specific posts:

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]but the fact of thematter is you live in this country and enjoy its freedoms. If the country needs you you should go. Regardless of why you feel the war was started to begin with. You reaap the benefits of being free then you should have to chip in when needed to keep it that way.
    I actually agree; if I believed a military action was necessary for the safety of the country and the preservation of freedom, I'd go (though, with my background, I'd likely just wind up as a weapons designer).

    However, this war does *not* fit into that rubric. We haven't been attacked by Iraq, or even forces related to them (remember, the Iraq - alQaueda link has been disproved).

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Nect we need to take care of Iran. The tards! We should drop a 50 Kilo-ton Nuke right in the middle of downtown Teran and see how they like it. You want a Nuke Iran?? Well here is one, come and get it!
    Yes, because murdering innocent civilians is always a good idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I could be wrong about this but I swear Bush said he would not have a draft. So as long as he's the President he will veto it.
    As I said above, I doubt he'll get the chance. It'll die in committee assuredly. Bills that everyone hates never make it far.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Today's world is different from the old days where we could draw out borderlines and single out crazy rulers. Today countries such as Iran sponsor terrorists groups to do what they want. It is impossible to single out a terrorist group which is interleaved between citizens and multiple countries.
    But then why use the old solution, war? Why not step back and say "hey, this terrorism thing is a totally novel form of war, so we need a novel solution"?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]When you have enemies who do not accept your existance and despise that you exist how do you go about solving this problem? Ignoring them will just enable them to do more damage to us on our own ground because they will grow in numbers and sophistication. You can try to diplomatically fix things but once again we tried this before in the past and this just allowed for us to be minipulated by countries as Iraq and N. Korea. I whole heartedly wish that these things could be solved by us isolating our selves from everyone elses business and by diplomacy. But the fact is we live in a fast-paced globalized world today and hesitation leads to more innocents dying.
    I think the issue is balance: we can't ignore other countries and just seal ourselves off, but neither can we go around poking our noses into everyone's business and acting as the world's policeman. We need to find a nice medium, and stick to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]We may have a VP who supports torture to get vital information from terrorists however we also have citizens who feel that these terrorists deserve the same rights as U.S. citizens. You tell me what is worse...
    The former, easily. The ends do not justify the means, and furthermore, torture doesn't work! It has been repeatedly shown that confessions and information extracted under torture are so unreliable that you might as well just throw darts at a wall of random names, places and acts. People will say anything to stop pain, and that includes lying like crazy.

    It's not about 'doing what it takes to keep the US safe', it's about using a method that's not only inhumane, but ineffective. Why even bother?

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Who are we to sit and watch horrendus acts such as genocide happen when we can do something to prevent millions of people from dying? Who are we to just sit there and watch starving peoples die while we have surpluses of food? Who are we to watch sickly people die because they don't have access to vaccines and medicines? Who are we to just sit around and watch the AIDS cases grow in Africa when we have the knowledge to teach and educate Africans how to avoid contracting the disease?
    And yet we've done none of these. Iraq's war crimes pale in comparison to Sudan, which this adminstration has pointedly ignored. If we spent even 1% of what we spent on Iraq on food for other nations, world hunger would end. Ditto for disease and HIV.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]We were hated before we were in Iraq. It's funny how people forget 9/11. Who's country did we invade then? Even before 9/11 why was our embassys bombed? What did we do then?
    But that was a small minority, a fringe group. Now the general world opinion is against us, and we've alienated badly-needed allies.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Israel historically and rightfully belongs to the Jewish people:
    And the USA historically and rightfully belongs to the Native Americans. ALL of it. I don't see anyone arguing to give it back, though.

    The only reason Israel was even created was because, in the aftermath of the Holocaust, some Christians decided to try to fulfill a Biblical prophecy and to hell with the consequences. We've been paying for that hubris ever since.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]How were the Jews removed from their homeland? You mean to tell me that Muslims didn't violently remove innocent Jewish citizens from the lands that they had lived on for generations?
    So, you'll be going back to Europe along with me when the United States of Native Americans forms?

    Yes, what happened in the past was bad, but two wrongs do not make a right. Or will you be joining the Cherokee nation soon, or whichever one is the *rightful* owner of wherever you live?

    Mokele
    \"With malleus aforethought, mammals got an earful of their ancestor's jaw.\"
    --J. Burns, on the evolution of auditory ossicles.

  6. #62
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    the Muslims should've recieved a humanitarian award for such a tolerant policy.
    So tolerant that when a cartoon is published your publication building will be set on fire. So tolerant that when the Pope makes logical sense saying that religion shouldn't be about violence that you go out and kill a nun.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  7. #63
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    hmmm... I'm not so sure that's what the Pope said

  8. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]What we find to be fundamental human rights here in the U.S. do not apply to Terrorists. Remember the be-headings?
    So you're saying they aren't human, or don't deserve human rights? You're willing to waive all standards of decent behavior just because someone is your enemy?

    You should be ashamed to call yourself a Christian. Whatever happened to love thy enemy, to treating people properly even if they don't do the same to you?

    Pathetic.
    \"With malleus aforethought, mammals got an earful of their ancestor's jaw.\"
    --J. Burns, on the evolution of auditory ossicles.

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