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Thread: Story of how Satan came to be found in the bible?

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    TheAntiLion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (nepenthes_ak @ Dec. 04 2006,7:51)]Yea I always wondered and every one always disagreed their was a verse some where that reads something like biblical Sampson, whose unsurpassed strength was lost when Delilah cut off his *seven* locks of hair.

    hmmphf
    Samson's story is found in Judges 13-16. The verse you are looking for is perhaps Judges 16:19. The reason why his hair is so important is because at birth he was placed under a Nazirite vow (Numbers 6: 1-21), which stated that along with certain dietary restrictions, no hair was to be removed from the body until the vow was over. So he was 20+ years old; so that is a lot of hair. The Nazirite vow is perhaps one of the major reasons why most depictions of Christ Jesus has him with long hair.

    edit: one of the reasons I like this story is because it is true to human character. Samson only tells her his secret after he has basically annoyed him to death. Judges 16:16 (NASB) - "it came about when she pressed him daily with her words and urged him, that his soul was annoyed to death

    See where nagging will get ya? A shaved head, and imprisonment.
    -Doug

    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I found it&#33 but 'That's funny ...'
    -Isaac Asimov

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    JRFxtreme's Avatar
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    If you beleive that God can predict the future, then you have to understand that even before he created you, he knew every event that would play out in your life and whether you ultimately would go to heaven or hell. Therfore you have to resign yourself to understand that either:

    A.) Free will is simply an illusion and he created you solely to play out your life as his design.

    or

    B.) He is an imperfect being and cannot do everything(as in see the future).

    Its not hard to understand that if you build a wind up toy with a sticky wheel it will only roll a certain way.

    The only other option would be that he creates at random which would still mean hes imperfect because a perfect being creating at random would still know the exact outcome of his creation therfore nullifying the randomness.

    That last one kind of went in a circle..

    Michael Jackson's Moonwalker = the best game EVER!

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    TheAntiLion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (JRFxtreme @ Dec. 05 2006,12:34)]If you beleive that God can predict the future, then you have to understand that even before he created you, he knew every event that would play out in your life and whether you ultimately would go to heaven or hell. Therfore you have to resign yourself to understand that either:

    A.) Free will is simply an illusion and he created you solely to play out your life as his design.

    or

    B.) He is an imperfect being and cannot do everything(as in see the future).

    Its not hard to understand that if you build a wind up toy with a sticky wheel it will only roll a certain way.

    The only other option would be that he creates at random which would still mean hes imperfect because a perfect being creating at random would still know the exact outcome of his creation therfore nullifying the randomness.

    That last one kind of went in a circle..

    Michael Jackson's Moonwalker = the best game EVER!
    It doesn't necessarily have to be an either..or situation. I will offer what I know and some illustrations that have helped me understand God's all knowing ability. I'm no expert, nor do I think there will be an concrete answer to this, but this is what I think.

    C.S. Lewis wrote an illustration relating God to time that has really helped me out. You have a sheet of paper, and on the paper a line is drawn. That line represents time past present and future. God is the paper on which the line is dawn. Therefore, God is both in time, and out of time. It takes some thinking, but it kinda makes sense, at least to me.

    Then add that to the fact that God wants to be LOVED by choice, not by force. Free will must be given in order for that to happen. In giving us free choice, God did limit himself. He sacrificed some control. He cannot mess with free will. That is his limiting situation. He did this out of love, and desire for relationship. He has the full capacity to rid us of free will, but he chooses not to. He can still see what choices you make, and what road you will take, but IMO he chooses to peruse everyone no matter what. I'm am delving into strictly personal option here, so don't take anything as pure doctrine or theology. God desires us to love him so much that I think the limits himself in truly knowing a person's final decision. God does put limits on himself. His willingness to do so is personified in the act that he came to Earth in human form and spirit as Jesus Christ. He is still powerful, but like any man with power, he can choose to limit said power. It is a really confusing subject, but I really don't think there is an either.. or situation at play here. I'm sure there are theology books dedicated to this sort of thing, but alas, I don't know of any so I can't recommend any.

    Edit to add: It seems that you presume that somehow God directly causes events to happen. I disagree. He may have put the situation together, and the available choices, but I don't think he forces any direct choice. He probably knows what will happen if one picks any of the choices, and the causes from each of them. God may know where a leaf will land after it falls. God may have created the physics that the leaf endures to reach the ground. However, he doesn't directly cause the leaf to land in that spot.
    -Doug

    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I found it&#33 but 'That's funny ...'
    -Isaac Asimov

  4. #60
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    Maybe the people god creates who he knows will not love him are there to "test" the others and thus strengthen their love.

    Then one could say those people are "disposable" or some other word that I can't think of right now lol. That doesn't really sound that good.

    Personally, If I was a christian I would say that even though God knows some people will never love him, he loves THEM so very very much that he is willing to give them a chance even though it will never happen. This goes back to what I said about Satan. God, IMO, knows that Satan will never repent but god loves satan so very much that his arms are always open to the chance that satan will ask for salvation, even though it won't happen, and IMO, that makes god sad because God loves Satan just as much as he loves you or me.

    Lol, If I forget to capitalize God, don't read anything into it. I'm trying to have propper grammar!! lol

    What if God chooses not to know out final decision? If he can limit himself out of his own power (and IMO that is not a sign of weakness or imperfection), then maybe he chooses to do so and is rooting for us the whole time? that makes a lot of sense to me because If God did indeed know what we would do in the end then it seems kind of pointless.

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    nepenthes_ak's Avatar
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    Ant lion but Was it dreadlocks he had? You don't have to remove hair to Have dreadlocks.

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    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (JRFxtreme @ Dec. 05 2006,12:34)]If you beleive that God can predict the future, then you have to understand that even before he created you, he knew every event that would play out in your life and whether you ultimately would go to heaven or hell. Therfore you have to resign yourself to understand that either:

    A.) Free will is simply an illusion and he created you solely to play out your life as his design.

    or

    B.) He is an imperfect being and cannot do everything(as in see the future).

    Its not hard to understand that if you build a wind up toy with a sticky wheel it will only roll a certain way.

    The only other option would be that he creates at random which would still mean hes imperfect because a perfect being creating at random would still know the exact outcome of his creation therfore nullifying the randomness.

    That last one kind of went in a circle..

    Michael Jackson's Moonwalker = the best game EVER!
    In what other way could God have created people who truely love him? If He didn't give us free will and the choice to choose then that love we would have for Him would be fake and artificial.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  7. #63
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (JustLikeAPill @ Dec. 03 2006,8:43)]"If we continue to neglect so great a salvation in Jesus, we are hardening our hearts to the Lord's word and eventually the opportunity to know the Lord will disappear forever"

    Hmmm... I learned that it's never ever too late. Only if you die.


    I could live a life of sin and parties then repent on my deathbed and as long as i'm sincere I could go to heaven. You never lose your chance until you die (that's if you are capable of understanding and have heard the truth)

    Just my thoughts.
    Jesus knows our hearts, motivations, and thoughts and what we did with the life that was given to us. When judgment day comes a perfect justice will be proclaimed.

    Matthew 7:21-23:

    Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

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    TheAntiLion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (nepenthes_ak @ Dec. 05 2006,2:37)]Ant lion but Was it dreadlocks he had? You don't have to remove hair to Have dreadlocks.
    Considering that dreadlocks didn't originate from the middle east, I would say no, but it did say that he had braids.

    Edit: I stand corrected. Thanks Nepenthes_ak for that wiki article. Samson probably did have dreadlocks.
    -Doug

    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I found it&#33 but 'That's funny ...'
    -Isaac Asimov

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