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Thread: What do you think?

  1. #25
    endparenthesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (JustLikeAPill @ Dec. 05 2006,9:24)]Lol, please don't get the wrong Idea that i'm mad or don't like you or anything. I enjoy these discussions and think your opinion is valuable and you are a great person!
    I don't bite my tongue because people get mad, but because I usually get arguments in response that have a tinge of selfishness and nihilism to them, and I never seem to be able to find a way to mirror that back to people. Someday I'll find the right response but I obviously don't have it yet.

    My main question is, how do you really know you aren't hurting anyone? The chain of causality in this sort of thing isn't usually transparent. For example, when you buy pot, do you know exactly where it came from? Does some neighborhood kid grow it in his basement or is it from a dealer somewhere? What did that dealer do to get it? I don't think people on the end of this chain are totally free of responsibility for the things that happen in the middle of it.

    If we buy cigarettes we aren't just hurting ourselves. We're enabling the cigarette companies to make more cigarettes and affect more lives. They're using our money to hook more and more people. They're doing something deplorable, but every smoker on the planet is an accomplice in it. The same must be true of illegal drugs, and obviously in the chain of drugs like cocaine and heroin, unspeakable horrors happen that I can't fathom any caring person contributing a cent to.

    In this case I think "it's a personal choice" is an illusion. To be a personal choice, it must also have personal consequences. But the consequences aren't limited to the individual.

    I guess I just don't see it as an issue of freedom, so the legality of drugs isn't my primary focus. I see it as an issue of self-restraint and concern for the rest of humanity. The lack of this is the self-absorption I'm talking about. There are a lot of things we can do that we shouldn't... because we care we don't do them. Even when a specific event seems harmless, it's all part of a bigger picture.

    Because I feel this way, the line between "use" and "abuse" is thin (or with most drugs, nonexistent) in my mind.

    Anyway, thanks for the gesture. I apologize if I've gotten overly aggressive as I often do on forums.

  2. #26
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    No bro your cool. I was just reminding you the body uses the circulatory system just like drugs do is all.

    The fact that pot is illegal brings about the criminal side of things. People wouldn't have to support the dealer/smugglers if the stuff was legal. They could grow their own. That is besides the point though. The topic on hand was about Nepenthes getting in trouble.

    So to get back on topic He should have gotten in trouble because as it stands now it is illegal and his mother doesn't feel the need to be involved with it. Since you live there it is her rules.
    JB
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  3. #27
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    It's interesting that you mention nihilism after I talked about lack of purpose lol.

    I don't look at it that way. I mean, I do not believe supporting the drug industry by buying makes you any more responsible of the people who may or may not have been hurt in the procurring of those drugs. It's like if you buy a 3 carat flawless diamond, you'r not responsible for the people who may or may not have suffered to get it and who may have died in the process (sierra leone). I realize some people may not agree with me on this but it's just me. If you disagree that's totally cool, too. Ever seen the poor children who mine Tanzanite (excluding the Tanzanite one company)? The drug cartels who kill over emeralds? KILL over emeralds.... People aren't responsible for that crap. My mother isn't, and hell she collects faceted gems.



    Psh, agressive? you? Nah, you'r always cool.




    Sure, i'll agree that using drugs and alcohol is a selfish thing to do for the purposes of pleasure (atleast in the beginning in some cases), But I don't believe in activist abstainence. To be perfectly honest, i don't care. humans are a violent, selfish species and look out for #1 as a whole. If you see someone in a car accident, you feel bad for them and a minute later you start thinking about pie or britney spears or whatever. You don't care REALLY. You don't go to their funeral. You are glad it's not you, that's what you are. By the way, by you I mean anyone, not YOU lol.

  4. #28
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    The only thing that matters is that you put your parents in a precarious position. Luckily, nothing bad happened.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  5. #29
    Capslock's Avatar
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    I don't want to wade in too deep here, but people always try to make the drug issue much simpler than it is. It's not simple, and there is no single approach.

    First, there aren't too many people clamoring to go back to the days of prohibition. There are a few, but not too many. Yet alcohol is not only a drug, but in the grand scheme of things, a very dangerous drug. In induces violence, drunk driving, and is relatively high-impact on the body and ones health. Yet people treat it like it's no big deal, but then go into spasms of outrage when someone discusses pot, a drug that is milder and safer in virtually every respect than alcohol.

    Likewise, people don't even consider coffee a drug, but it most certainly is - and one that is both psychoactive and physically addicting. Coca-Cola is a drug delivery system for children. Deal with it.

    So, it's very complex and it's difficult to have a reasonable policy for drugs that applies to everything. There is very little evidence that there can be a socially acceptable recreational use of crystal meth, for example, that isn't ruinous to individuals and communities, but again, by every measure pot should be legal before alcohol is. (I've been to pro sporting events where the beer-fueled fans are violent and boorish, and to 3-day reggae festivals with the air thick with cannabis, but no violence or trouble of any kind.)

    And yet, despite all these social injustices and hypocritical attitudes, the fact remains that people should take care of themselves and maintain healthy lifestyles, and you want to encourage that. Personally, I'm a social libertarian (small L) and feel that people should be given the widest possible berth to make their own decisions and chart their own courses (AFTER achieving the age where they are capable of such decisions - commonly agreed to be 18). Whatever policies people support - they should be well-reasoned, researched, and not a one-size-fits-all policy for all drugs, lest aspirin be prohibited.

    In the case in this thread, while I have sympathy with helping out friends and keeping them out of trouble, the house belongs to mom and dad, and you can't use their assets and put them at risk to help your friends out.

    Capslock, babbling away, but NOT stoned.
    Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium

    My photos are copyright-free and public domain

  6. #30
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    VERY well said!

    I just love those "San Francisco Values"!

  7. #31
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    Very good post Caps!! I couldn't have said it better myself.

    It all goes back to the perceived threat of the drug. Heck there are some perscrition drugs that have HORIBLE side effects and this that and the other, but they are not stigmatized as being bad because they are prescrition. We have a mentality in this country to see scripts as ok, but they are the most widely abused drugs out there. They are just "legal" because of the script and they are prescribed.

    Cannabis has a bad rap because of propoganda after prohabition ended and something about the lazy mexican. The DEA needed something to go after so they stigmatized pot since alcohol was legal again.

    I agree that there cannot be a one blanket answer to the issue because it is WAY more complex than that.
    JB
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  8. #32
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    I NEVER understood how people could say Mexicans are lazy. They are the hardest working people I know! I could NEVER work as hard as they do!

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