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Thread: Saddam Hussein executed today before dawn

  1. #57
    homer's Avatar
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    QUOTE
    Bush distracted the nation from real terrorists to give the Neocons the Iraq invasion they'd been lusting for, creating many more terrorists and weakening the US.


    Oh yes, but not to be forgotten... the no-bid government contracts awarded to Halliburton and the like, where the CEO's, etc get multi-millions, and the soldiers and everyone else in the free-world gets the shaft from the war.

    Oh yes, and thank God for term limits... if the President Office didn't have terms limits, the two party monopoly that we have all grown to love (Republicats and Democans) would have given us a leader... for LIFE

    -Homer

  2. #58
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    1. The invasion of Iraq based on "intelligence" that turned out to be wrong, and which the president has never actully produced for the public to see. Therefore making the invasion based on false pretence and regaurdless invading another country is illegal under international law unless they attack you first or are an imminent threat, which Iraq was not. Unless you dont believe that the war is going on in Iraq, unless of course you have been there personally, otherwise it could all be "made up out of thin air". I forget that tens of thousands of deaths are probably "pure fiction" in your book since you didnt see all of the bodies they must not exist.


    The President should be tried of war crimes because the intelligence that was given to him and the congress at that time wasn't 100% accurate?

    Unfortunately when you fight a war people die and even the innocent is among those who die. That does not null the objective to free Iraq. Freedom comes with a price tag.

    QUOTE

    2. Again where is this evidence of weapons of mass destruction?


    I don't know if the information is still classified or not. However it was presented to the President and the Congress and everyone agreed based on this information.

    QUOTE

    3. Our military attacked civilian areas like street side restaurants to try to kill Saddam, but instead killed only civilians. Also the multiple civilian installations that were destroyed by our military with no attempt to control it by our president. Also supplying bombs to Isreal while they droped them on civilians (which was declared a war crime by every country in the UN but the US) should also be sufficent evidence.


    Unless Saddam and his troops were to separate themselves from the civilians and go onto a battlefield how were we supposed to avoid this? Do you not think he purposefully hid amongst innocent civilians? Once again it is the unfortunate part of war.

    Well if Hammas wasn't a bunch of cowards and fought like real men instead of hiding about the innocent and using women and children as meat shields I'm sure the civilian casualties would have been far less. But you see the terrorist extremists we are fighting over there are spineless cowards and will use tactics such as occupying homes of innocent families and temples. Their women and children hold no significant value over there but merely pawns in their lunatic brainwashed holy war.

    Also since when did you care about innocent civilians dying? Don't you support the liberation of Palestine? You know those people who strap bombs onto themselves and run into Israel markets and stores killing innocents?

    QUOTE

    4. Again do you live in a cave?


    Why not provide some source of argument instead of wise cracks?

    QUOTE

    5. See patriot act and military commissons act of 2006 (suspends writ Habeas Corpus)


    How has the Patriot Act personally effected you or anyone else on this board? The answer is it hasn't because it doesn't apply to any of us.

    QUOTE

    6. Again where are these WMD programs?


    Why ask the same question twice?

    QUOTE

    7. Again this illegal war


    Aren't you a supporter of Iran's Nuclear Program?

    QUOTE

    8. military commissions act of 2006
    9. military commissions act of 2006
    10. military commissions act of 2006


    Am I missing something or are these all the same point with a different number?

    QUOTE

    11. I will admit I have no concrete proof of this point, but evidence from Abu Ghraib should show evidence of misconduct in our treatment of prisoners.


    The things that occurred at Abu Ghraib were wrong. However they can never compare to the islamic extremists disgusting and evil acts.

    QUOTE

    12. self explanitory
    13. patriot act and military commissons act of 2006
    14. patriot act
    15. patriot act (there is no legal defintion of terrorist hence the problem here)
    16. patriot act and military commissons act of 2006
    17. self explaintory


    Unless you are phoning a call to a terrorist organization in the middle east, this protects you.

    QUOTE

    18. He withdrew us from the international criminal court system and broke a treaty with Russia with out authorization from the people that alone is reason to remove him.


    That's just plain silly. Why do we have to be a part of the international criminal court system? If you haven't noticed this administration (and I'm thankful for this) doesn't care about the international communities view of us and quite frankly I don't either. I will take criticism and genuinely trying to do good over global popularity any day.

    Lastly Ktulu, correct me if I'm wrong of course....would it be wrong to say you hate Bush because he supports Israel? I know your all for the liberation of Palestine so I could see why your POV is skewed. Just curious.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  3. #59
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    Please delete the post above me.
    (Done! -Est)

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Well if Hammas wasn't a bunch of cowards and fought like real men instead of hiding about the innocent and using women and children as meat shields I'm sure the civilian casualties would have been far less. But you see the terrorist extremists we are fighting over there are spineless cowards and will use tactics such as occupying homes of innocent families and temples. Their women and children hold no significant value over there but merely pawns in their lunatic brainwashed holy war.
    Apparently we don't hold the innocent families in significant value either. You DON"T bomb civilians just because a bad guy MIGHT be there. Look what Isreal did.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Also since when did you care about innocent civilians dying? Don't you support the liberation of Palestine? You know those people who strap bombs onto themselves and run into Israel markets and stores killing innocents?
    Since when are you someone to say something like that? What about the ISREALI"S who opress the palestinians! OR since Isreal is the "Holy land" they can do no wrong? Should the palistinians kill isreali's? NO! Should the Isreali's opress and deny the palistinians rights and invade their homes? NO!

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]How has the Patriot Act personally effected you or anyone else on this board? The answer is it hasn't because it doesn't apply to any of us


    It does if we make too many international phone calls... kinda paranoid. Kind of like an invasion of privacy.... Kind of like an ominous fear to speak out.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Why do we have to be a part of the international criminal court system?
    .. Are you serious? Surely this is a joke... WE ARE AMERICA!!

    It's OK. I know you're very religious and since Isreal is the "holy land" Your opinion must me skewed.




  4. #60
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    The reason why I brought up Israel is the fact that many people hate Bush because he supports them. I have no allegiance to the "Holy Land" or Israel. Sure I'd like to travel there one day and visit the lands Jesus once walked. Besides that I don't need a Holy Land to have a relationship with my Savior.

    You can bash Israel all you want. Hammas was clearly in the wrong and provoked Israel to do what it did. Yes civilians died but in the end it wasn't because of the bombings. It was because the cowards overtook the civilian homes and forced the families to stay there or they'd kill them. It was a cheap tactic to try and avoid any confrontation with Israel.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    It does if we make too many international phone calls... kinda paranoid. Kind of like an invasion of privacy.... Kind of like an ominous fear to speak out.
    Your just paranoid.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    .. Are you serious? Surely this is a joke... WE ARE AMERICA!!
    http://www.state.gov/t/us/rm/25818.htm
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  5. #61
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    I don't hate bush because he supports isreal. That's not even a factor for me. I'd love to go to isreal, too. Not in today's climate, though. I think Isreali's are cool, it's their government I don't like.

    The ACLU must be full of paranoid people like me.

    All we can do is agree to disagree.

  6. #62
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    The ACLU must be full of paranoid people like me.
    Don't even get me started about the ACLU
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  7. #63

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    Personally, I think all people (even horrible dictators) have worth as human beings. Because of this, I am against the death penalty. If anyone thinks that killing a single person in revenge will solve the crisis in the middle east, they are sadly mistaken. The US govt will undoubtedly flaunt this for months in as a symbolic "I told you so" gesture which in reality, has no bearing on terrorism or radicalism in the middle east. Saddam wasn't the driving force behing radical islam or terrorism. This was caused by many independant groups with the same mentality. Unlike past enemies of the west, terrorism isn't an organized beurocracy with a "head" that can be cut off, rendering it powerless. Once Hitler was taken out of power, Nazism withered and dissapeared. Fighting terrorisims is more difficult. Terrorist cells are like D. adelea. You can pull them up as much as you want, but they can regenerate with the smallest root fragment. The way the US fights terrorism is an anachronism. The US needs to adapt thier strategy, or better yet, pull out.

    just my 2 cents

  8. #64
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    Clint you know me and you know I do not like big brother looking over me, but for crying out loud. The patriot act has not and will never take any on individuals rights away. There are wayyyyyy to many phone calls going on for any government organization to monitor them all. I had an analyst tell me this that I go to the Gym with. Everyone who is paranoid that the government is going to be listening in on a phone conversation is crazy. You have to be doing something worth being listened to or else they are not going to listen to you. There are too many other phone conversations of importance to worry about. The fact of the matter is you have to be doing something to make yourself a target for investigation PERIOD! If you are not doing anything wrong then they are not going to waste there time with you.

    Homer you are correct than goodness for Term Limits. Now we just need them for congress and things will be peachy, but as I said those lifers in Congress are not going to give up the golden egg that easily. Voting yourself a term limit is absurd in there eyes. They are too greedy and power hungry. I mean come on. There has to be something to it. You are going to spend Millions of dollars to get a job that only pays about 100 to 150K a year? Come on they do it for the perks and for the fringe benefits of being in office. Not to mention the power it brings them.

    Clint the thing about pink was just how that sheriff runs his jails. A lot of the hard core thugs in prison do not want to be seen in all pink. Nothing against homosexuals intended there.

    Also Yes I think if they do not work they do not eat. Why should a criminal be treated better than a homeless person? A/C is not a necessity of life. Folks lived a long time without it and I consider it a luxury and not a necessity. Medical care. Again I say why should a criminal be treated better than our poor and homeless?? We should be giving the poor and homeless free medical care before we give it to an inmate. The inmate should have to work for his food and care. Especially since some inmates do things to themselves to get themselves medical care and be in the hospital. I have seen it before. I still say the criminals seem to have far more rights than the civilian does anymore. Heck if your resisting arrest you need the crap beat out of you, but the police cannot do their job anymore because if they use the slightest force to subdue a criminal then they get in trouble not the criminal.

    Now to the death penalty issue. Why spend the money to keep them alive when we know they did something?? When it is not based on he said she said BS? It is cheaper to just end it and move on. I am sorry I value civilized life more than I do those who choose not to be civilized. I know I am not perfect myself, but I am not going to be doing something that will result in the death penalty either. Now don't think I am for just killing everyone. Heck that would be absurd, but if you killed someone and it was not an accident then off with your head. If your out raping and mooning Innocent women and children. Off with your head. We don't need you or your gene pool in our nation. Again I say the consequences for our actions are not severe enough any more.

    I do agree with you that the laws are screwed up too, but it is a double edged sword where both sides are sharp. It is not just the laws it is other things as well.

    I do not agree with your statement that an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. If you have Harsh punishments they act as better deterrents then the woosie ones we have now. I bet you no one would want to get caught for stealing if they were to take a finger or a hand if caught. I bet you people would not vandalize stuff if they knew they would get 20 lashings with a bamboo staff. As it stands now the crime is worth the risk of the punishment in a lot of cases so people still commit the crimes. If the punishment was far worse than not committing the crime then people would not commit it. Since it would not be worth the punishment.

    Clint I also believe that EST covered this already, but a WMD is not just a nuke bro. we did not think Saddam had nukes, but we know he had Anthrax and other bio-weapons at one point in time. Like Bruce said we got him those things. I can see why we are hated, but it is just like the racial war going on over here. We still have a lot of folks wanting whites to be held accountable for what our ancestors did. It cannot work that way. I nor anyone else for that matter can be held responsible for those that kept slaves. Just like we should not be held responsible for what our past government did behind the scenes.

    The fact of the matter is neither side is right in this fight. The Jihadist keep pushing and we keep pushing back. I don't have an answer. I wish I did, but in a world where it is survival of the fittest a sure fire way to end it is to get rid of the competition, and I sure as heck would want my country to be victorious. So be as barbaric as it may sound. Since I do not think they are just going to put down there arms and forgive and forget. Then they must be forced to.

    One last thing. I find this rather funny. I seen it posted in this thread too. The administration was criticized for doing nothing about the intelligence that there was going to be a 9-11 attack. Also the administration is being criticized for trying to prevent another attack. That goes back to the point bought up in this thread also. Bush is being criticized for going over and trying to take out the terrorists, but had he done nothing after 9-11 he would have been criticized for not taking any action. So the man is in a loose loose situation. He is not going to make everyone happy, and for that matter no one will ever make everyone happy. Its a fact of life.
    JB
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