Cocaine, Meth and Chronic, oh my!

[FarmerDave]

JLAP: I was just saying that I personally get kinda mad whenever a parent with kids (develpoing or not) does drugs, or tends to get very drunk a lot. 1) because they need a lot of that wasted money for their kids, and 2) because it's a really bad experience for their kids.........believe me I would know.

 

[Clint]

Oh I thought you got mad because people bought expensive dope lol. I totally agree, and drugs aren't all that that happens with. Some people would rather buy lottery tickets than put food on the table. Gambling is just stupid to me lol. You're probably not going to win unless you card-count at blackjack and that's hella hard. I agree though, that pisses me off to no end when people put themselves before their kids (in any regard, not just when it comes to addictions). BUT I also believe if you don't have any money problems and you have at least above room temperature IQ then there's nothing wrong with having a bowl when the kids aren't around as long as you don't negate any of your obligations.

Cocaine isn't even that fun lol. I don't see why people like it so much. The comedown is worse that the high is good.... and it's not that good of a high lol.

Short euphoria followed by cold sweat and a hurting, pounding chest.... No i think I'll pass lol



I gotsta have my coffee , Bruce Lol It's a mild stimulant and the only problems that arise happen when someone takes a whole bottle of no-doze. Look at Guarana and stuff , and didn't they re-legalize Ephedra? If people didn't overdo ephedra then go play football there would be far fewer problems lol. These drugs are just another shortcut that Americans are so fond of. Sure you could work out to feel alert, but people would rather drink coffee and energy drinks than do that. Then they go eat a whole pie lol! I'm more worried about the obesity epidemic than most drugs.

Lol, maybe when I'm a grandpa I can tell my grandkids that "I lived through the great obesity epidemic of the 21st century!" LMAO!

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

You got that right Clint! Obesity is a far worse problem than anything drug related. People are complaining about being addicted well look at all the fat behinds addicted to food. The addiction is the same, but the sad part is though we need food to live.


Also Farmer Dave Pot has not caused a single reported case of cancer. It doesn't fry any more braincells than breathing in city air. The problems that can arise from smoking pot are minimal at best. If you were to eat it there would be no adverse affects on the body. The only problem with MJ ATM is the fact that most people smoke it. It only "makes you lazy" if you get the dirt weed that has a lot of another cannabanoid in it. I would have to read the book again, but basically there are two active chemicals in pot. THC and another cannabanoid. The other cannabanoid is responsible for the sedative affect. I know when I smoke a bowl of the good stuff I am ready to do something. So with you being underage you shouldn't be fooling with it for one, and your information is inaccurate for 2. The thing about it making you lazy was a BIG propaganda hype used to get it illegal. They claimed the Mexicans came over smoking it and claimed they were lazy. The propaganda also claimed that it make crazed African Americans. That is not the word used, but you get the point.

Well EST, OK you have me there, but you still have to process it some. You don't just get the white powder. Also if the coca leaves were used like they originally were by the Mayans ans Aztecs it is not all that bad, but when you use the mega doses like you can with crack or powder is when it gets bad. You can even kill your bowels from doing to much coke. I have taken out dead bowel from people who abused coke. People have died from coke overdoses. NO ONE HAS EVER DIED FROM A POT overdose. It is physically impossible to smoke the amount necessary to OD on it, and I do not think someone is going to ingest a pound at one time to OD on it.

Nep G you are correct one glass of wine is reported good for you. I have not heard it reported about beer, but I am not disputing that it could be. Now how often do you just have one glass of beer? Well scratch that I have one or two glasses of beer at a sitting most time, but I do it on an empty stomach so I get a buzz then eat something to drive home after dinner. Plus it costs do dang much to have a beer at a restaurant. Any who. You can get the desired affect with one bowl or one joint of pot where as you would normally need 4 to 6 to get a decent buzz with alcohol. At least for me. If I have food on my stomach I have easily done through 12 beers before. No I do not do it all the time because I hate the feeling the next day from having to much to drink. Hangovers SUCK. With pot no matter how much you smoke your not going to have a hangover the next day. Unless you smoke some potent hash or purp your going to be down in after about 2 to 6 hours. I have had reports from others after smoking a joint of good hash they were stoned for 2 days. Now that is too much IMO, but hey what can you say. Had he had an equivalent dose of other illegal drugs he may have been dead.

My biggest thing is not to try to convince people to smoke pot. I personally do not care if you toke on them like they are cigarettes or if you never touch the stuff. It just drives me insane when I hear someone bad mouthing Marijuana when it should not be bad mouthed. Everything floating around about the stuff is propaganda BS. Thanks to our gooberment who ran scared from something they knew nothing about. Those that knew about it knew it as Hemp and not by marijuana so they were too late to say something about its medicinal value and recreational value. Now you have every law maker wanting to be politically correct and refusing to even visit the issue because many people still believe it is a bad thing from all the propaganda spread through the media and gooberment about it. Believe me when I say I used to believe all that mess too. I did not smoke my first joint till I was 17 years old. I was dead set against drugs until then. I believed all the BS spread about them and was a good boy. I tried to keep my friends from doing it and all that jazz. Then I wised up. I was convinced to try it and I realized that all the stuff they were saying about it was a lie! I still made good grades in school and I was never arrested for anything. Now that I am 28 I am still making good grades in school and still have not been arrested for anything. My wife and I own our home that we have totally remodeled, have 3 vehicles, a greenhouse, and are getting the few bills we have paid off. Not bad for a pot head huh? Many lawyers and doctors are potheads. There was an advocate on TV who was a lawyer and proclaimed pothead. Now I know that law school is a B@#$H. So if all those things were true about pot those folks would have never made it 4 years of college then 4 years of law school. The dang government used to pay farmers to grow hemp for the war for crying out loud! This was before all the breeding programs to get strains better suited for fabric production and some better suited for smoking. Yet it is all still cannabis. The same way sweet corn is still corn and if you pollinate field corn with sweet corn you will loose the sweetness in the offspring because the sweet gene is recessive. Cannabis is the same way. There is only a few species of cannabis, but through breeding they have made fiber strains and smoking strains.

Take it as you will. I will have research links on my next post. I will try to refrain from replying to this thread until then. I might fail at that because I will have to defend MJ again, but who knows.

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

BHAMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! First search and ALREADY I found something that might surprise a lot of you!!!!!

The active ingredient of marijuana could be considerably better at suppressing the abnormal clumping of malformed proteins that is a hallmark of Alzheimer's than any currently approved drugs prescribed for the treatment of the disease.

The rest of the article is here. http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/061005_alzheimers_marijuana.html

Notice the Key there. It said BETTER and not just better but CONSIDERABLY better than currently prescribed drugs!! Already first search and I have something for the skeptics!! And no Finch. That was directed at all the skeptics and not just you.

 

[Clint]

You know... i'm not convinced eating/smoking a whole pound would kill you... maybe make you pass out for a while... But kill you? I didn't think it was possible at any level.

Even a kilo of hash... I have a hard time believe that if you could ingest it it would KILL you.

Better go smoke so I don't get Alzheimer's.

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

Myth: Marijuana Policy in the Netherlands is a Failure. Dutch law, which allows marijuana to be bought, sold, and used openly, has resulted in increasing rates of marijuana use, particularly in youth.

Fact: The Netherlands' drug policy is the most nonpunitive in Europe. For more than twenty years, Dutch citizens over age eighteen have been permitted to buy and use cannabis (marijuana and hashish) in government-regulated coffee shops. This policy has not resulted in dramatically escalating cannabis use. For most age groups, rates of marijuana use in the Netherlands are similar to those in the United States. However, for young adolescents, rates of marijuana use are lower in the Netherlands than in the United States. The Dutch people overwhelmingly approve of current cannabis policy which seeks to normalize rather than dramatize cannabis use. The Dutch government occasionally revises existing policy, but it remains committed to decriminalization.

Myth: Marijuana Kills Brain Cells. Used over time, marijuana permanently alters brain structure and function, causing memory loss, cognitive impairment, personality deterioration, and reduced productivity.

Fact: None of the medical tests currently used to detect brain damage in humans have found harm from marijuana, even from long term high-dose use. An early study reported brain damage in rhesus monkeys after six months exposure to high concentrations of marijuana smoke. In a recent, more carefully conducted study, researchers found no evidence of brain abnormality in monkeys that were forced to inhale the equivalent of four to five marijuana cigarettes every day for a year. The claim that marijuana kills brain cells is based on a speculative report dating back a quarter of a century that has never been supported by any scientific study.

Myth: Marijuana Causes an Amotivational Syndrome. Marijuana makes users passive, apathetic, and uninterested in the future. Students who use marijuana become underachievers and workers who use marijuana become unproductive.

Fact: For twenty-five years, researchers have searched for a marijuana-induced amotivational syndrome and have failed to find it. People who are intoxicated constantly, regardless of the drug, are unlikely to be productive members of society. There is nothing about marijuana specifically that causes people to lose their drive and ambition. In laboratory studies, subjects given high doses of marijuana for several days or even several weeks exhibit no decrease in work motivation or productivity. Among working adults, marijuana users tend to earn higher wages than non-users. College students who use marijuana have the same grades as nonusers. Among high school students, heavy use is associated with school failure, but school failure usually comes first.

I found another one!! Again here is the rest of the story.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

Another one from the same site.

Myth: Marijuana Causes Crime. Marijuana users commit more property offenses than nonusers. Under the influence of marijuana, people become irrational, aggressive, and violent.

Fact: Every serious scholar and government commission examining the relationship between marijuana use and crime has reached the same conclusion: marijuana does not cause crime. The vast majority of marijuana users do not commit crimes other than the crime of possessing marijuana. Among marijuana users who do commit crimes, marijuana plays no causal role. Almost all human and animal studies show that marijuana decreases rather than increases aggression.

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

Farmer dave this one is for you. Also from the same site.

Myth: Marijuana is More Damaging to the Lungs Than Tobacco. Marijuana smokers are at a high risk of developing lung cancer, bronchitis, and emphysema.

Fact: Moderate smoking of marijuana appears to pose minimal danger to the lungs. Like tobacco smoke, marijuana smoke contains a number of irritants and carcinogens. But marijuana users typically smoke much less often than tobacco smokers, and over time, inhale much less smoke. As a result, the risk of serious lung damage should be lower in marijuana smokers. There have been no reports of lung cancer related solely to marijuana, and in a large study presented to the American Thoracic Society in 2006, even heavy users of smoked marijuana were found not to have any increased risk of lung cancer. Unlike heavy tobacco smokers, heavy marijuana smokers exhibit no obstruction of the lung's small airway. That indicates that people will not develop emphysema from smoking marijuana.

 

[Clint]

If we could somehow get the bears to toke then our problems would be over.

Hey Josh, does MJ make you like acoustic music and crappy outdoor festivals? If it does then I'm never smoking again!

lol, I'm entertaining myself with a serious subject lol. Seriously those findings are interesting and we (or at least I) appreciate it.

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

The biggest problem with looking this stuff up on the net is that there is alot of false stuff out there. I just found 3 sites that all had the same BS. ALMOST word for word. Some had a little additions, but for the most part it was 90% the same stuff as the gooberment (Thanks rattler I like your word. Can't ya tell?) site. So even with references who is to know what is the truth?? When I did my research a year agot about THC being a neuro-toxin I found a crap load of site claiming it was, but the thing was all those sites had exactly word for word the same write up. Then I stumbled on the one medical site that was using THC as an anti-neuro-toxin. So the gooberment propaganda machine is still hard at work, and you have a fair amount of blind mice following the pied piper spreading the propaganda.

So if you go to a .gov site you are likely to recive the same puked up BS that you hear on TV.

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

Effects of Marijuana
This is a short article on the effects of marijuana because the author is stoned and can't concentrate

By Steven Johnston
25 June 2002


Effects of Marijuana on the Nervous System
The active ingredient in marijuana is THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) and it affects the nervous system (excellent).

THC acts on the cannabinoid receptors located at various places in our brains, mainly on areas affecting memory, concentration, perception and movement. In smaller doses marijuana makes you feel more relaxed, reduces coordination, alters your sense of time and generally feels very nice indeed. It can also give you the munchies, in my case an insatiable desire to eat microwave pizzas. Personally I think the fast food industry should support the legalisation of marijuana.

Higher doses of marijuana impairs memory and may cause delusions, hallucinations and disorientation. But then again drinking a bottle of whisky makes you fight your neighbours and wet the bed, you’ve got to know your limits.

Smoking cannabis has no long term effects on intelligence (1)

In 1992 scientists found a naturally occurring chemical in the brain called anandamide that interacts with our cannabinoid receptors. Scientists are still unsure of the function of this chemical. We at Dr Bongs however are willing to speculate ….. it makes you feel better, more relaxed, less stressed …. Duh, scientists can be so stupid. Anandamide is the brains natural THC.

The effects of marijuana can be almost immediate (three cheers for marijuana) and can last several hours.

There is NO documented case worldwide of a fatal overdose from taking marijuana.

Effects of Marijuana and cancer
No valid study has conclusively linked cancer to smoking marijuana. Many scientists have tried to establish this link but the evidence is weak at best. Let’s just say there are lies, damn lies and statistics drug war scientists………

Indeed delta-8 THC, delta-9 THC and Cannabinol are active as anti cancer agents (2). We don’t mean to suggest by this that smoking marijuana decreases your risk of cancer, that would be a pretty stupid claim to make, but we mention it because the drug warriors never do…… strange that eh?

Of course if you are mixing marijuana with tobacco then you face all the risks associated with tobacco. It is best to avoid tobacco if you possibly can (really ??). Using a bong or vaporizer allows you to avoid tobacco and may be better than smoking marijuana with tobacco.

In fact one of the main problems with studies into marijuana and cancer is that most of these studies have not taken into account that some of the people using marijuana also use tobacco. There is nothing more stupid on this planet than a scientist on a drug agency grant. Or corrupt for that matter.


References

(1) Canadian Medical Association Journal (vol 166, p 887)
(2) Louis S. Harris, Analgesic and Anti-Tumor Potential of The Cannabinoids (Medical College of Virginia, 1972)

This is from a site I found and he has sited works of his own!! Oh happy days! They are medical journals too. So you know they can be trusted. Or can they? I copied the entire article because it is from a commercial website and he is selling paraphernalia. I edited his sales plug in the article too.

 

[nepenthes gracilis]

See thats the kind of research I wanted to read. So there is some documentation that is TRUE about C. sativa.

 

[rattler]

It only "makes you lazy" if you get the dirt weed that has a lot of another cannabanoid in it.
****************************************************************************

if were a talking truth here thats not quite right. while the use of the drug will not cause laziness, one of the subspecies/forms, indica, produces a "glue you to the seat type of stone" which can be confused with laziness if your smoking that all the time.........its a definate sit and do nothing type of a stone. the sativa strains arent quite like that and infact make some ppl quite hyper. alot of the strains out there, especially the popular ones are either a 50/50 mix of the two or up to around 80% sativa.........there are 100% strains of both around some of which are quite popular. when i was smoking pot(havent in over 5 years now) i much prefered the mostly indica varieties, they really mellowed me out and since i was usually looking for something to help me relax(alcohol doesnt do this for me) they were what i was after

 

[Clint]

Lol, the best trips i've had were indica highs lol. Closing your eyes and floating in an ocean of energy.... melding with the earth. Sinking in bread dough......

Lol... darn I hope it wasn't laced lol. I've never felt "energized" by weed, but that could be me. I do dislike hash though. To.. blagh maked me too sleepy.

Disclaimer: It SOUNDS fun kids but it was a Nightmare! Don't do it or you'll go INSANE! and kill your parents!

 

[nepenthes_ak]

http://www.rawganique.com/Hempinfo.htm
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/duke_energy/Cannabis_sativa.html

Their are some nice web sites with lots of technical information on the Uses of hemp...

I dont say go do it, but make youre own choice you need to decide if you want to do it not you're friends...

 

[rattler]

Disclaimer: It SOUNDS fun kids but it was a Nightmare! Don't do it or you'll go INSANE! and kill your parents!
***************************************************************************

cant see how statements like this helps any.....................

as long as a person is not opperating heavy machinery(personal vehicles included), is watching over children(or any other situation where they have control over other ppl's lives and well being) or has no health reasons that say they shouldnt do it there is no more wrong with pot than there is with alcohol, infact i would put it a few steps above alcohol on the "OK scale"

the reason i stopped smoking pot is not because i see anything wrong with it, the reason i quit is because my wife asked me to due to the current legal implications. if i was caught with a significant amount of pot its quite likely they could take my firearms even though i am not involved in any gang activity nor are they used for any illegal pupose. also i could possibly never legally be allowed to own a firearm ever again(unless laws change). not to mention jail time in general was not worth getting high for.

so at the moment i am borderline addicted to opiates as perscribed by my doc. they arent doing anything for me that i could do by self medicating with pot. the opiates however are legal. on bad days the pain i have isnt allievated by the current meds, they just make me stoned enough to sleep. i cant take opiates at work due to running printing presses so by the same token i couldnt be stoned at work, however i wouldnt have to deal with all the side affects that come with the opiates, not to mention i could grow my own meds as easily as im growing alot of my CP's(and with far less effort than i am devoting to my dart frogs) but legally i cant do this. while Montana has passed medical marijuana laws, the federal implications should i get nailed through one of those channels are still extreamly serious.

if a person thinks alcohol is ok in appropriate settings then they should have no problems with pot in the same settings

 

[Clint]

Lol, JOKE! Man people never know when i'm joking these days lol. It was a parody of the old propaganda and these stupid disclaimers i'm getting sick of writing.

I agree 100%

 

[Finch]

That looks much better, thank you. My only concern being that you may have discarded other studies that did not fit your veiw as 'goverment propaganda', if you mentioned 90% thats more than just propaganda. Still the information you have given seems sound

thank you

 

[Est]

Josh, I'd love to see a replication of the source studies of that article. The article itself seems a "little" biased.

Ok, let's get to some unbiased scientific articles. This first one has to do with the claim that marijuana has no effect on memory beyond the period when you're high.

Snippet from "Marijuana: A Decade and a Half Later, Still a Crude Drug With Underappreciated Toxicity" as written by Schwartz, Richard H. and published in Pediatrics; Feb2002 Part 1 of 2, Vol. 109 Issue 2, p284, 6p.

Short-Term Memory Impairment

Impairment of short-term memory is one of the least debatable and most troublesome adverse effects of marijuana.( n38-n43) During the past 15 years, there has been important research in this area in adults, high school students, and college students. The single most marked effect of marijuana smoking seems to be an impairment of our ability to process newly learned material and store it for future use. Given the increase in use of marijuana by 8th-grade students since 1992, this has alarming potential significance.

Seven of 8 studies published before 1988 found lingering selective deficits in recent memory in adult, chronic marijuana smokers as compared with control subjects.( n38) Two of those 8 studies initially found no evidence of memory impairment. However, on reevaluation of the same subjects 1 decade later, short-term memory impairment was demonstrable. Does impairment of short-term memory linger after the marijuana euphoria has passed? In real life, as in the laboratory setting, short-term memory impairment secondary to smoking marijuana has been documented to cause major problems. Having trouble remembering things is the most bothersome adverse effect mentioned by 100 adult, daily marijuana smokers.( n44) In a study of 10 high school students who had been daily marijuana smokers for a mean of 7 months, marijuana use was confirmed by twice-weekly tests for urine THC.( n45) Excluded from the study were those who were heavy drinkers and those with low IQ test scores. During the 6-week study period, participants were supervised 24 hours a day to ensure that they could not continue to smoke marijuana. A neuropsychology masters-level candidate administered auditory and visual short-term memory tests after a 48-hour washout period and again 6 weeks later. Impairment of both visual and auditory short-term memory was demonstrated. Control groups did not show this impairment. In a well-publicized study of 65 college students who smoked marijuana frequently and 64 who smoked it occasionally, daily use of the drug was associated with impairment of "executive functions" such as learning of lists and attention to homework.( n46) Residual neuropsychological impairment of executive functions was found to carry over well past the period of intoxication. Verbal fluency was noted to be impaired in many of the daily marijuana smokers. In the accompanying editorial to this published study, it was suggested that the most plausible interpretation of the findings was that heavy marijuana smoking produces alterations of cannabinoid-specific brain function or structure.( n47)

The citations:
(n38.) Schwartz RH. Heavy marijuana use and recent memory impairment. Psychiatr Ann. 1991;21:80-83

(n39.) Block RI, Ghoneim MM. Effects of chronic marijuana use on human cognition. Psychopharmacology (Berl). 1993;110:219-228

(n40.) Solowij N, Michie PT, Fox AM. Differential impairments of selective attention due to frequency and duration of cannabis use. Biol Psychiatry. 1995;37:731-739

(n41.) Kurzthaler H, Hummer M, Miller C, et al. Effect of cannabis use on cognitive functions and driving ability. J Clin Psychiatr. 1999;60:395-399

(n42.) Solowij N. Cannabis and Cognitive Functioning. Cambridge, England: Cambridge University Press; 1998

(n43.) Ameri A. The effects of cannabinoids on the brain. Prog Neurobiol. 1999;58:315-348

(n44.) Hendin H, Haas AP, Singer P, et al. Living High: Daily Marijuana Use Among Adults. New York, NY: Human Sciences Press; 1987

(n45.) Schwartz RH, Gruenewald PJ, Klitzner M, Fedio P. Short-term memory impairment in cannabis-dependent adolescents. Am J Dis Child. 1989;143:1214-1219

(n46.) Pope HG Jr, Yurgelun-Todd D. The residual cognitive effects of heavy marijuana use in college students. JAMA. 1996;275:521-527

(n47.) Block RI. Does heavy marijuana use impair human cognition and brain function? JAMA. 1996;275:560-561

(n48.) Van Hoozen BE, Cross CE. Marijuana: Respiratory tract effects. Clin Rev Allergy Immunol. 1997;15:243-269

This clearly states the exact opposite of the idea that marijuana has no long term effects. Period. If anyone wants me to find an individual cited article I may be able to.

Though to show I'm not biased, I may be able to link anyone interested in study that shows that previous or current light use of marijuana does not decrese IQ in a 70-person sample size (however consistant, heavy -more than 5 joints per week- use did result in a decrease in IQ score.) Josh, that's one of the reasons I'd love to see the studies cited in your article, the general finding seems similar, but I'd like to see how well the other parts of the study match up.

Interesting stuff, all of it. At the very least I hope I can everyone a good kick in the fanny. lol! It's easy to SAY something is one way or another, but it's another when suddenly you have evidence stating the contrary.

 

[Clint]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=sHzdsFiBbFc&mode=related&search=

This is your spider. This is your spider on drugs.