Cocaine, Meth and Chronic, oh my!

[JB_OrchidGuy]

I found this on Wiki.

Schedule I is the only category of controlled substances that may not be prescribed by a physician. Under 21 U.S.C. § 812(b), drugs must meet three criteria in order to be placed in Schedule I:

The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse
The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.
There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision.
In 1970, Congress placed marijuana into Schedule I on the advice of Assistant Secretary of Health Roger O. Egeberg. His letter to Harley O. Staggers, Chairman of the House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce, indicates that the classification was intended to be provisional:

Dear Mr. Chairman: In a prior communication, comments requested by your committee on the scientific aspects of the drug classification scheme incorporated in H.R. 18583 were provided. This communication is concerned with the proposed classification of marihuana.
It is presently classed in schedule I(C) along with its active constituents, the tetrahydrocannibinols and other psychotropic drugs.
Some question has been raised whether the use of the plant itself produces "severe psychological or physical dependence" as required by a schedule I or even schedule II criterion. Since there is still a considerable void in our knowledge of the plant and effects of the active drug contained in it, our recommendation is that marihuana be retained within schedule I at least until the completion of certain studies now underway to resolve the issue. If those studies make it appropriate for the Attorney General to change the placement of marihuana to a different schedule, he may do so in accordance with the authority provided under section 201 of the bill. . .
Sincerely yours, (signed) Roger O. Egeberg, M.D.
The reference to "certain studies" is to the then-forthcoming National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse. In 1972, the Commission released a report favoring decriminalization of marijuana. The Richard Nixon administration took no action to implement the recommendation, however. A protracted struggle ensued in which marijuana reform activists began working through all three branches of government to reschedule the drug.

Also on Wiki lower in the article.

In some ways, cannabis is indisputably safer than prescription narcotics such as oxycodone and morphine, since there are no records of anyone ever dying from a cannabis overdose. The reason for this was revealed in a study by M. Herkenham, A.B. Lynn, et al, Cannabinoid Receptor Localization in Brain, published in a 1990 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, attributing the lack of overdose deaths to a lack of cannabinoid receptors in areas of the brain controlling breathing and the heart.[6] Gettman claims that the discovery of the cannabinoid receptor system in the late 1980s revolutionized scientific understanding of cannabis' effects and provided further evidence that it does not belong in Schedule I.

Here is the full articles I have been reading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_rescheduling_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schedule_IV#Schedule_I_drugs

 

[Finch]

Blah some people will never learn.

Perhaps we would listen to you if you actually gave supporting data for yout wild claims for once.

MJ used to be prescribed, but now it is banned

Yes just like meth, and other things like radon. Those are far worse but just to show how this argument is flawed.

Extacy (MDMA) used to be prescribed, and so did methanphetamines. Meth was prescribed be narcolepsy and for weightloss. LSD was also studied by the military to make a more effective soldier or something like that. Soooooooo just step back and look at the big picture. We ARE a drug culture whether you like it or not.

That makes no sence. By that logic, any drug use in the past makes it part of our culture. So does that mean there good? OK? No. It does not.

Also I would like to add one more thing to the mix here. Have many folks stepped back to think, maybe the reason there is alot of crime related with "drugs" is due to the fact that they are illegal? I am going to use pot relatedc crimes as an example here. Since that is the only one I care to see legal. Any of the smugling crimes with MJ is because it is illegal. You would not have that if it was legal. I don't think there are people killing folks or robbing to smoke another bud. Most people who commit crimes and have MJ in there system ALSO have acohol or cocane in there system. Most folks on MJ are mellow and do not care to get roudy. It just ruins the buzz. If MJ was legal there would be no need to smuggle it and no more gang wars over MJ profits. No more peopel getting arrested just because they blazed a joint or was buying a sack for themself.

Alot of times the hurt done to bystandards is becaue of the laws set in place and not the "problem" itself

Im skepticle. Can you show me supporting data? And not from wikipedia, please.

 

[Clint]

Meth is still prescribed. It's called Desoxyn. It's still scripted for ADD/ADHD/HAD, narcolepsy, and some specific type of obesity.

Yes, any drug used in our history is part of our culture, to me. Are you saying that LSD and the flower children aren't part of our heritage? A hippie just died when you said that lol.

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

Finch, Loosen up the bunghole a bit. I pick up a lot of my information while out reading and looking up various things when I am bored. I do not cite everything I read. Those were just a few things I found off Wiki when I was doing some random research last night on the web at work. Just for you though I will start to dig and cite every NON Wiki site just for you.

Perhaps we would listen to you if you actually gave supporting data for your wild claims for once.

That was totally uncalled for. It is a slam on my character and implies I have no clue what I am talking about. It is like calling me a "know it all" that doesn't know anything, and that angers me. I have received the vibe from other posts of yours that you don't like me very much. This last post just confirmed it. You really should get out of the little bubble your in and learn something about the world that is not in text books, Finch. We are in a drug culture. Face it. Look at all the non-necessary scripts being spread around. All the drug commercials on the TV. You have a drug for this a drug for that. When the biggest thing this country needs is to exercise. As I said before the most abused drugs in the US are prescription drugs. Either obtained illegally or legally with s script, but I forgot those are OK since they are prescribed ya know.

Quote:
Also I would like to add one more thing to the mix here. Have many folks stepped back to think, maybe the reason there is alot of crime related with "drugs" is due to the fact that they are illegal? I am going to use pot relatedc crimes as an example here. Since that is the only one I care to see legal. Any of the smugling crimes with MJ is because it is illegal. You would not have that if it was legal. I don't think there are people killing folks or robbing to smoke another bud. Most people who commit crimes and have MJ in there system ALSO have acohol or cocane in there system. Most folks on MJ are mellow and do not care to get roudy. It just ruins the buzz. If MJ was legal there would be no need to smuggle it and no more gang wars over MJ profits. No more peopel getting arrested just because they blazed a joint or was buying a sack for themself.

Alot of times the hurt done to bystandards is becaue of the laws set in place and not the "problem" itself
Im skepticle. Can you show me supporting data? And not from wikipedia, please.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also for this last one Finchy. I don't have a supporting study. No one does. Oh I forgot MJ is a schedule one drug. Very hard to get permits to study it. Then if they did I am sure they would study something else before they studied this aspect of it. All I can offer you is my personal experience and observations. I have NEVER seen one of my friends get violent off just smoking herb, and that is a lot of people I have seen smoking too. Next time you read the paper and reading the reports of a violent crime where the perpetrator was intoxicated you will more likely have MJ, Cocaine, or alcohol in their system. I would say a lot of the time they would have a combination of 2 or all three. I would also bet not once would you see one listed with just MJ. The stereotypes about MJ are false. If you stepped out of your bubble and took a toke you would understand why, but since I am willing to bet dollars to donuts you have never inhaled you really cannot say one way or the other. Since we know that the majority of the tests that are out there are swayed one way or the other. The ONLY way you are going to see for yourself is to toke up, but I don't see the restriction getting loosed for that any time soon.


Just FYI too. Most folks do not get stoned on the first toke. I know I did not, but that second time I toked HOLY COW! Never been one like it since.


I just personally cannot stand it when people are against something without all the facts at hand. My argument is not just for the purpose of toking up. It is also for the use of Hemp as paper, cloths, and bio fuel. The fact that one acre of hemp make so many more times the amount of paper that trees does should bring some of the tree huggers to the cause. The fact that it uses far less chemicals to grow should bring the environmentalist on board, but NOOOOO. Everyone is stuck on the fact that some people like to smoke it for recreational use. Just goes to show you how strong the propaganda monster is. It has the majority of our country running scared from the big green beast we call Marijuana. Thank goodness that is changing. More and more people are coming out of the closet and proclaiming the beauty of the bud, and all the good it could do for this world.



Finch Stop hating over the comments I made in your precious global warming thread. I stated those to be opinions. This stuff I either have personal experience with or have read it someplace.

 

[Clint]

OMG! LOL! Coke came out of my nose!

Hehehe... coke came out of my nose hehe

Lmao, that was so funny man lol.

Just be nice guys. This must be my longest thread ever and I don't want it locked lol.

As far as Josh (or me... or many people) not providing cites, This is a little discussion on a CP board. This isn't a scientific paper or congress.

For the record I always listen to Josh. I think his opinion is valuable and valid (even without cites, which I never expect from people in a place like this. Unless the convo is about the bible or something.)

 

[herenorthere]

In a nation where so many kids have absentee (or worse parents) or are stranded in suburbia looking for something to do, readily-accessible drugs make it too easy to screw their lives up. Not counting the fall-out of the War on Drugs that puts so many people in jail for petty marijuana busts. But counting the people who should be growing and learning but instead use drugs for recreation or to cope or to get up or whatever.

People will say drugs are harmless, but anything that can make a 1/2 hour guitar solo seem like a good idea has to be bad. It just has to be and no further studies are needed. Forget Reefer Madness; you ever find yourself stranded at a party listening to one Dead show tape after another?

Our resident libertarians might chime in that guvmint has no business meddling in such affairs, but it does. Those kids are the ones we'll be relying on to do everything in the future, from working to serving in the military to taking care of all us soon-to-be-doddering old people. It is absolutely in the nation's interest to have them grow up with as little access to drugs as possible.

If someone has the initiative to grow his own marijuana or to walk through a field collecting magic mushrooms off of cow poops, I wouldn't stop him. I usually go gender neutral on the pronouns, by the way, but I've never yet met a her who grew or collected her own. But if people are buying or selling, I say bust them. Not with our insane War on Drugs sentencing, but with fines and community service.

 

[Finch]

Finch Stop hating over the comments I made in your precious global warming thread. I stated those to be opinions. This stuff I either have personal experience with or have read it someplace.

My global warming thread? What does that have to do with this thead?

What i am trying to get is the facts you have read somewhere because i like learning and naturally would be very interested in the material you have read. I do not believe that you are giving wrong information, but it is difficult for me to grasp why you cant show me the stuff you have read to find this information. Its not a study i was hoping for, its the stuff you read. I wanted to see that because I hoped it had a more thorough wealth of information on the subject than what i have, and frankly it would be the thing that would swing my opinion in favor of it, that’s why i ask. If your teaching me something, i like links so i can read further and maybe further my knowledge about the subject. That is why i keep after you about it because its not that I doubt your validity, its that I am interested in what you have to say and that I wonder what you know that I don’t. It’s the chance to read further that I want. It lends weight to say, hey, that’s where he got it, so its gotta be correct and not doubtable. But when you cant provide this, you deprive people of the opportunity to see the same things you have.

When you say

Most people who commit crimes and have MJ in there system ALSO have acohol or cocane in there system.

that would be a really big blow to all te arguments against mj, and I wanted to see where it came from to see if they have any more interesting statistics like that, because it had to come from somewhere, right? No big scientific study, just the, erm, facts

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

Well Finch, I apologize. I miss-understood the tones of your statements. It wasn't so much as to what you said, but the way it was presented that ruffled my feathers.

Perhaps we would listen to you if you actually gave supporting data for yout wild claims for once.

This comment mainly.

The truth is I don't remember the sources. It comes from talking with friends about the subject, personal experience and past studies of the issue. When I do come across something new that is interesting and I remember to save the link I do. That is where the wiki things came in. I have not done any recent research till last night, and I wasn't searching for much. Just the scheduling stuff.

Next time if you are seriously asking for more info because your curious then just say you are curious and want to know more about it. I was put on the defensive with the accusatory tone in your writing.

 

[Clint]

If someone has the initiative to grow his own marijuana or to walk through a field collecting magic mushrooms off of cow poops, I wouldn't stop him. I usually go gender neutral on the pronouns, by the way, but I've never yet met a her who grew or collected her own.

Lol, my friend Sierra does lol

As far as our kids being the future.. hell even the president was a cokehead and got in a drunk driving crash.

Oh wait....Yes now I can see your point lol.

 

[Finch]

No, im sorry. Its not that i dont like you, i think your fine, i just get ruffled sometimes... more so lately for reasons i cannot guess. Im not gonna lie-you ruffle me more than most, but its not your fault. Its mine. Your right on that comment, it was uncalled for.

Its ok if you dont have information for this- your not being graded on it. I have been working with science references closely lately so i guess i had come to expect it. It... it just opened a whole new style of doing things that i have found i liked. Its hard to remember sometimes that it is not always like that.
The way i see it, references do not give validity, they just add extra weight, and I have come to rely upon it. There is no way you could have known that, as no one is a mind reader. I admit to having difficulty articulating what I want sometimes. Its not that im not listening. IMO, you give very well-written responses normally, and your opinion is always welcome in my book, even though I do not agree with it sometimes.

Oh and all in all, I have sofened my stance on MJ a little, in part because of everyones arguments. I dont think its a great idea, but it wont be the end of the world if it is legalized. When everyone says its on the path to becoming legal, i say that medicinally, prehaps, but recreationaly it still has a long way to go.

 

[Clint]

YAY! I'm glad we softened you up (even if it was just a little )


Ehh, aren't they thinking about making Viagra OTC (in a weaker dose however)? It's just a matter of time IMO. Unless people screw that up too and start mixing it with poppers. Stupid people...

You can't stop progress. That's why it's called... Progress! lol

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

Well, Finch we are cool. I kinda figured I ruffled you a little. I admit to getting ruffled sometimes myself. We do have different opinions and that is fine. It would suck if everyone did the same things and thought the same things. So that is cool.

Now as far as being legalized for rec use. It is coming. Once the medicinal aspect is brought in full swing and people realize that it is not all bad like the gooberment says it is it will become more accepted. Our friends up in Canada have already realized it and have decriminalized it.

Someone said he could see letting people grow their own. Heck I could deal with that. I would LOVE to grow my own buddage, but as it stands now I cannot do that legaly. So I am still waiting to go down and get my script for it. LMAO!! Since we all knwo that if we have a script for something it is ok to have and do.

 

[nepenthes_ak]

I would have a huge garden to be honest! lol Honey HASH!

 

[Clint]

Ehh, I'd have 3-5 plants but not a big garden or anything.

It's really not high on my list of favorites because it makes me so extremely paranoid, to the point of tears. I guess if it was legalized then the fear of being caught would disappear however.

The usual disclaimer: Don't do that.

 

[Est]

:shrug: I guess I'm jumping in here, but only for a tangent. hehe

If marijuana was legalized, even I would probably grow it. No interest in smoking it, but it is a very interesting plant. Just like tobacco, there's some cool lookin' varieties.

It's really not high on my list of favorites because it makes me so extremely paranoid, to the point of tears. I guess if it was legalized then the fear of being caught would disappear however.

The paradoia, however, will not disappear (regardless of legal status.)

 

[Clint]

Hmm... I have do disagree. I'm not talking in general, I mean personally. My paranoia is solely fear of getting busted my by rents. When I go to college, it would be (IF I did it) the authority figures I'd be afraid of. If it was legalized then I wouldn't be afraid of getting caught because there would be no punishment. There wouldn't be anything else to fear, except monsters lol. And that is a perfect example of how you should be careful what you mix and match. Because with drugs, monsters CAN really come out of your closet. Shoe monsters...

As for other people's paranoia, that's their problem lol. Yes MJ can cause paranoia, but it doesn't do that all the time or for everyone.

It is a beautiful, interesting plant. Looks like a CP, what with all of the stickilicious trichomes

EDIT: Lol my mom's been reading and all she says it "to be careful of what I say" lol. It surprised me, too!

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

LOL Well she has a good point, but I am a pot advocate so I voice my opinion onthe plant. Thanks for looking out for us mom!

Est I have to agree with Clint on the paranoia. Most of the paranoia is due to it being illegal. Since I know that you cannot be busted for being high it doesn't phase me anymore. I will toke up and then go to the store. The only time I get noid now is when I am trying to hide being stoned and that is not to often anymore. I realize it is on a person to person basis, but I do believe that the paranoia involved with being stoned is due to the legality of the plant. The stigma is well engrained into most people brains. Take away the penalty and the paranoia goes away. It is the same thing when people start drinking before they should. They are paranoid, but after they are legal the paranoia of being drunk goes away.

It is time for me to go do some research for Ole Finchy. LOL

 

[Clint]

Ummm.... You can be arrested for being publicly intoxicated right? And wouldn't the penalties for having THC in your system over alcohol be more severe?

And wouldn't that warrant...a warrant for them to search your house?

Oh god maybe I'm just being paranoid lol

Lol, I'm totally surprised me mom was so accepting lol. I've promised her that I won't do hardcore drugs but she's aware that I have every intention of enjoying entheogens and MJ when I'm 18.

I mean I WOULD if it was legal......

Disclaimer on't break the law.

Lol, I wonder if the mods even care if I put disclaimers? lol Probably in my best interest to continue.

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

Clint not everyone who is drunk gets slapped with public intoxication. Think about it. Everyone at a bar would get arrested on fri and sat nights. It is one of those things that allows them to add it if you give them a reason to. I suppose if the LEO wanted to be a pain he could, but I do not suspect it would give them the right to search your home though. I just know there is no specific law making it illegal to have THC in your system. It is just illegal to posess the plant, and you have to posess it to smoke it.

 

[Clint]

Oh lol. I did not know that! Whenever I ship out of here I'll have to investigate that further.

Thanks!