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Thread: Proof of Abuse by our troops in Iraq!!

  1. #25
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    I have a simple answer, but it involves a time machine and Grigori Rasputin, so it'll be expensive.
    Seriously, I think the problem is less finding an answer as it is implementing one. A big part of that is the increasing rigormortis of the American political process; we've taken the lead in this entire endeavor and done very little with it. Stay in or get out - they're both solid plans that probably can be executed if we really get behind them, but the problem is that the parties have too many economic and personal interests to agree on a single course of action. So, we get a shoddy compromise that's as inefficient as possible as the President and House majority both take a break to throw tantrums. I'm leaning on the get out side myself, as I think that ending the occupation and turning to international powers stands a better chance of reducing both Coalition and sectarian casualties. The saddest part is that the lion's share of the people who agree with the stay in position are in it for the same reason that I support my opinion; reduced loss of life. But I fear that's not a high priority to the politicians.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  2. #26
    Av8tor1's Avatar
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    We try to play the "limited" warfare game which rarely works... firstly IMHO we should have followed the Powell Doctrine, but alas... that was tossed to the side... now Im afraid we will pay the price for many years to come

    the first Bush had it right, leave Saddam in a box, but dont remove him..

    the enemy of my enemy... tactics 101

  3. #27
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    That limited warfare game is big money for the military-industrial complex that profits mightily from the war. While many broken people return to live in poverty. It's from more than a century ago, but it never hurts to refer back to http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_brigade.htm in this situation.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  4. #28
    rattler's Avatar
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    Iraqis don't love or appreciate our soldiers.
    i have to call BS on this Bruce i know of one family for sre that appreciates the troops so damn much she offered her eldest daughter to my cousin for him to take her back to the states to be his wife................alot of the suicide bombers and idiots we are dealing with now are not Iraqi's........Mod Edit..........we are fighting Irainians, Saudi's, Syrian's............any idiot in the whole region willing to die for their "religion"........................we are not fighting a ppl or country, we are fighting an idea, and better there than here on US soil...................Europe is quickly loosing to the radical muslim culture.......look at the riots in France last year..........i hate Bush as much as you Bruce, if not more but this war in the Middle East was a long time coming and its not going to go away if we pick up and leave, the fight will just move more into Europe and other western nations..........the radical muslims hate our culture and everything we stand for and this is not going away.....................

    my cousin has been to Iraq twice...................he could likely go again and when he goes hes generally in the thick of it.............he's got 20 years in the Guards and could retire this year but hes staying in for atleast another 5 years even with the good chance of being thrown back in the sandbox.......

    Watch it Rattler. There's things that are OK to say, and things that are not. I'm not keeping you from expressing your opion, but mind what you say, and how you say it.
    Last edited by Est; 04-11-2007 at 05:49 PM. Reason: Content.
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  5. #29
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    rattler, I understand what you mean about the escalation of radical Islam, but I wonder if your example is really one of appreciation. Everyone realizes that things have hit the fan in Iraq, and the Iraqis themselves know it better than anyone else. That woman wanted to get her daughter out of there; given the opportunity, she'd probably try to find her kids a way to Yemen, Brazil, the Phillipines, or anyplace else where they could escape the violence. Does she appreciate the American soldiers? Maybe. I don't want to be contrary because I think your heart is defintely in the right place, but I think that woman, in all likelihood, had a more urgent motivation in mind at the time.
    Can we fight an idea with an army? I share in your desperation and agree that we're in a position where some sort of act of force is still necessary, but I'm skeptical that we'll make any headway against the mounting anti-Western movement through the Iraq front other than establishing an artificial and temporary republic there. ...Sadly, at this point I think we need to regroup and focus on ending the war before we tackle everything else. America's resources would certainly be of use in diffusing the international situation, but they're not really available; it's not ideal, but given the situation I think we can afford to fall back on the UN and other international forces to hold things together while we pick ourselves up. Ultimately, it's the radicals and terrorism groups that are the bigger problem, but there's too much of a loss of life and resources in the war to effectively continue concurrently on all fronts.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  6. #30
    rattler's Avatar
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    That woman wanted to get her daughter out of there; given the opportunity, she'd probably try to find her kids a way to Yemen, Brazil, the Phillipines, or anyplace else where they could escape the violence.
    not quite..................my cousin built her a house full of furniature in his spare time and she didnt have a clue about what was going on till they showed up and unloaded the truck the locally stationed US troops were keeping this family safe as she was one of the only Shite families in a Sunni town(or was it the other way around?) anyways it was some town bout 40 klicks from Bagdad
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  7. #31
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Well then, I'm glad that I carefully qualified that conjecture. That would be something to be grateful for. Is your cousin in the engineering corps or something? Where do you get the parts for building a house in your spare time in Iraq? No wonder all that contract money just disappeared. A nice gesture for sure, but I wonder if that wasn't a part of the pro-Sunni policies that the US has enacted. (Or, if they were indeed Shiite, perhaps some sort of response to criticism.)
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  8. #32
    Av8tor1's Avatar
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    IMHO the best way to prevent this from ever happening again is to require that the draft be reinstated before any war/police action can be declared..

    as long as only the few feel the sting of battle, its poison will be too easy to swallow

    30yrs ago I would have never believed I would make such a statement

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