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Thread: this is the reason for my rant..............

  1. #33
    quogue's Avatar
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    Actually that makes you "for" Gun Control.
    The Second Amendment is so that Citizens will have the same Firearms as the Gov't.
    For reasons such as mobilizing Citizens in order to protect the Country or if our Gov't becomes Corrupt and Abusive or slides into a Monarchy we will be able to rise and have another Revolution. That is what this Country has been founded on.
    It's not about Hunting "Priviledges" it's about standing up for this Great Nation and answering the call to Freedom.
    Sounds Hokey?
    There are those of us who still stand by these values believe it or not.

    "Oh who's gonna invade us? Canada or Mexico?"
    No but 50 yrs down the line, maybe China or Persia.
    Chavez takes over South America and the Caribbean? Possible.
    I say preserve our Freedoms not just for us now, but our Children in the Future.

    I know I'll get the Kook label from this. Better that than the Sheeple one.

    Target Shooting at the Range Today equals Marksmanship on the Field Tomorrow.

  2. #34
    rattler's Avatar
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    Steve let me break down some of your arguments:

    #1 the Second amendment has ABSOLUTLY NOTHING to do with hunting. it has everything to do with keeping citizens armed and the government inline, thats what the founding fathers intended, see my signature line.

    That said, I see absolutely NO reason why it should be legal, or necessary, to be able to purchase clips that hold 30 rounds of ammo for home defence. I see NO reason why it should be legal to carry a fully automatic AK-47 with a 200 round clip to hunt deer.

    in order to own a fully automatic firearm legally you have to register it with the federal government. it costs $200 per firearm(its actually a tax) and go though one hell of a background check. also more than a few states will not allow you to own one. California being one of them. that said i can point you to the largest hunting and firearms internet forum on the net and you will quickly find that fully auto firearms and 30(let alone 200) round clips are pretty well almost never used for hunting though they are occationally used for target shooting. i know of a few who use semi-auto AR-15's for hunting however most of these use 5 or 10 round clips because 30 rounders are an absolute pain in the **** and hang up on things.

    I see no reason why a 23 year old kid should be able to buy boxes of hollowpoint bullets.

    do you know what hollow point bullets even are? they have no real bearing in the effectiveness of killing a person. infact i cant think of one that will penetrate ballistic vest. hollow points might improve the effectiveness a tad bit and i know alot of police forces are using them but they are using them to help insure the bullet stays in the person they shoot and not zipping through to hit an innocent bystander. most hand gun hunters use revolvers firing hard cast lead bullets that dont expand, if hollowpoints were so much more effective in the killing of critters in the 200 pound class, more handgun hunters would be using them. i use ALOT of hollow point bullets this time of year, why? because they open up fast which is grat on critters up to about the 20 pounds or so which is what the average coyote around here runs, they also work great on the lil 2 pound ground squirrels. however i dont use them on deer unless you call the Barnes X bullet a hollow point because superficially it resembles one but in reality it is a semi solid.
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  3. #35
    rattler's Avatar
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    BTW it should be noted only once has a LEGAL fully automatic weapon been used in the commission of a crime by a private citizen since they were "outlawed" in the 20's. that weapon was used by an off duty police officer. all fully automatic firearms you have seen on the 6 o'clock news being used in the commission of a crime were illegal, they either were not registered(in other words smuggled into the country) or were converted from a semi automatic firearm, a practice that if discovered by the ATF guarantees you jail time.
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  4. #36
    quogue's Avatar
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    Beat me to it Rattler.. now my $.002

    You won't be able to get an "Assault Rifle" (as they like to call them) because you live in California and they've been unconstitutionally banned there anyway.
    Full Auto you need to live in a Class III friendly State and have the Class III Paperwork for your Firearm.
    There is no such thing as a 200 rd. Clip. Belt yes, Clip or Drum. No.
    Hollow Points are actually good for Home Defence because they splatter against hard targets such as walls lessoning the risk of hitting unintended targets.
    like your Neighbors.
    Carry these things in the Streets will get you in big trouble, you're right they don't belong in the middle of the street waving em around like a hoodlum.

    Not trying to be a jerk, just sayin what I gotta say on the subject....

    That said, I think it was one of the Forefathers who said "Hunting makes for good Practice"

  5. #37
    rattler's Avatar
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    BTW the term clip is wrong if your going to get technical. its a magazine, the last rifle to use a clip was the M1 Garand. while i havent seen 200 round drum magazines i have seen 150 round ones was giving Steve the benifit of the doubt that they might exist
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  6. #38
    rattler's Avatar
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    whoops ive lied, there have been 2 murders commited with legally owned fully automatic firearms since 1934

    On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine guns does not apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies.
    the other can be found here http://members.cox.net/arporro/photos/Shooting.pdf

    In Targeting Guns, Kleck cites the director of BATF testifying before Congress that he knew of less than ten crimes that were committed with legally owned machine guns (no time period was specified). Kleck says these crimes could have been nothing more than violations of gun regulations such as failure to notify BATF after moving a registered gun between states.
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  7. #39
    quogue's Avatar
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    Right on, stumbled with the clip/mag buisiness. Although SKS's and M14/M1A's can be loaded with Stripper Clips as well.
    Haven't seen 150 rd drums, seen the Chinese 100 f/ the AK. I own the 75 rd Rumanian.
    Come to think of it, the Beta-C's are 200 aren't they?

  8. #40
    VFT and Drosera lover vft guy in SJ's Avatar
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    Hollowpoint bullets are designed to expand once inside of the target body. Therby shredding the meat, leaving bits of shrapenel behind and genarally causing massive internal bleeding and injury. Obviously a hunter would not want this as blood taints the meat.

    That same trait that makes them so visciously lethal is the exact same trait which prevents them from penetrating body armor. Kevlar fiber (and other fiber based) bullet resistant clothing is designed to flatten the bullet upon impact and not allow the bullet to tear through the fibers as it normally would regular clothing. Hollowpoints actually make those vests even more effective.

    Now I am not "Anti-gun". I am not here to change your mind or argue with anybody about their rights. I am a hunter, I have no particular problem with killing animals (or people) for food or personal protection. I have a very nice compound bow which I use for hunting that is quite lethal when used properly. I could drop you and your bulletproof vest in your tracks if I were put in that position.

    Now, the second ammendment was written in what 1791? Todays society is well beyond what the founding fathers had ever remotely dreamed of. In the time when the ammendment was written there was a very real chance of a sneak invasion from a foriegn power. Today, NOBODY is going to invade anybody by surprise. If say China were to mobilize a force against the US to invade, how long do you think it would take before we knew about it? It would probably be broadcast all over the internet before the first soldier got his bootlaces tied. Why is it necessary for citizens to have such lethal weapons in their homes or on their person at all times?

    The text of the second ammendment reads: "Amendment II: A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. "

    A well regulated Militia... In my view.. a scattering of unknown citizens with guns, sprinkled across the country, is not what I would call "well regulated". Why can't the militia have cache's of weapons stored within easy reach in an emergency, where citizens can freely attain and use them in an invasion type situation but keep them off the streets and out of the hands of potential abusers, in peacetime? A "well regulated militia" would have training programs and designated supervised target shooting facilities that would be available to educate and train people who want to take advantage of it. IMO owning a basement full of rifles and using them to see how big a splatter can be made out of a woodchuck is not "well regulated"

    Now I am going to single you out here Rattler because I know you are going to point out that you live wayyy out in BFE.. you need your guns at your own home cause you would be too far away from a cache' in the event of emergency.. blah blah.. The very fact that you do live out in the sticks means that if we are invaded, you and your guns will be little or no value to the country as a militia man. Again, the arguement over needing a ready militia is moot in that circumstance.

    There are better ways to protect America and our way of life than to allow the uncontrolled dispersion of those types of military-intended weapons.

    Steve
    There are only 2 infinite things... the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not too sure about the universe.

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