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the death of Christianity

That was a good article. My observation, from reading Jewish and Christian history is that satan has this tendency to come up with neat sounding philosophies that people embrace for awhile. And then he comes back to them, with different spins, to be relevant to the existing society. Seems like Arianism came back as "The Way International" and Stoicism got redressed in the past century's science/age of reason.

In spite of all the garbage out there, God has always preserved a remnant.
 
Why do people like him care? I don't understand. Why cant he just do his own thing, be happy and worship whomever he wants how he wants and not worry about everyone else? I believe in God. It's great, but I don't advertise my view of god onto other people or try to "educate" them or change politics without an invitation. Take othat money spent on the church billboard, that I find personally offensive and an eyesore, and feed some hungry children, or get some help for a drug addict that wants it. I just don't understand how what I do affects yu, so why would you want to limit my freedom to be happy in the way I wish? It's not you, so why worry about it? Is it because the Christian Right has been a minority for so long that now they are afraid of losing their power? I'm not saying that to be a smart butt, just think about it. Let's say the entire world because a horrible atheist society. Homosexuality and abortions were commonplace. Why would it bother you if you did your own thing? According to your beliefs, they are the ones that are going to hell, so why bother? According to the Bible, Jesus went from place to place spreading his message, but he didn't stay in a town and force it on other people. He offered to tell them, and if they declined he went on. Why can't people just be like that? Look at me. If someone wants to talk about religion with me, I'll talk. I think it's fascinating, but I'll do it in an unbiased way and stay neutral. If they want to hear what my personal beliefs are, they can ask me and I'll tell them and that will be that.

New age beliefs.... what does it hurt? If I believe in Astral Projection or Prana or the power of Crystals, how does it bother you if I don't try to influence politics? Maybe God did create them? So what if they are a part of another belief system. That does not make them evil or bad. Have you ever met a "New age" person? They are some of the best damn , and most interesting for sure, people in the world. They are all about everyone doing their own thing to be happy and that's cool.

Do you know what I think about God? I think he's so great, he's above all of this. I don't think God cares what I do in my bedroom, or if Susy has an abortion. Have you ever tried to put yourself in the position of another person, and tried to think of what it would be like to go through something like that and the internal conflict and the reasoning of how a person would come to the conclusion of having an abortion?

The way I see the Bible is, it's a book. It was inspired by God, but written by man. They had politics back then, they had hate, they had inequalities and all of the same problems we have today, but they were more primitive people, philisophically. God did not write the bible. How can I say I know the mind of God? How can I begin to comprehend something so unimaginably great? That's like a mouse trying to comprehend the mind of a human , but on such another level that there is no analogy to describe it.

You may say that My god isn't Your God, or the real God. Well, Why can't we all have our God if we want? I accept Jesus just like you do, so why can't we leave it at that? You and I will see each other in Heaven one day, so why can't we be happy now and enjoy what time we have on this plane of existence? I accept Jesus, I'll go to heaven because my name is written in the book of life. So what if I fall in love with a man? So what if I support abortion? The end result is the same. Live and let live. Mormonism, Jehova's witnesses, etc. If they accept Christ, and you believe that's good (Hey I have to be PC and secular here) why waste your time to criticize them? It's like going with a friend on a trip. You take one rout and your friend takes another rout. You both get the same result and you're both happy about your trip, so why argue and fight and get mad?

Whenever I hear someone say something along the lines of homosexuality being evil or whatever, I may cast it off as just the crazy Christian Right getting angry for nothing and being ignorant, then I get angry and try to fight back. I guess because even though sometimes I say I'm above it all, deep down, in some Freudian way, maybe it really does hurt. I don't have all of the answers, you don't, that author doesn't and neither does Hilary Clinton, so why worry over the little stuff? Why not look at the big giant picture in front of you? GOD! He's not about if Adam marries Steve or if Lucy has an abortion. HE"S SO GREAT! He's so amazing he's ABOVE all of the little things that seem so important to us now, and really are, but won't one day. At least that's my God.


The last thing I want to do is to influence another person's religious views. That is not my place or business. What a heavy load that is! Life is a personal journey, I believe. Why don't we all take that journey together in unity and see what happens at the end? Maybe we'll all be a little surprised, because I believe that we are ALL immortal. If you're a Buddhist, I hope you reach Nirvana, if you are a Muslim, I hope you are greeted with 73 virgins one day, if you're a "New Ager" (What an incredibly broad term, the box is falling apart!) I hope you ascend to a higher plane of existence on a faster vibrational frequency. It's a personal decision to believe what you do, so let's all be happy and respect that! If people would separate politics from religion and think about the world we all have to live in, rather than the world we personally want, things would be great!


Wow. What a long post. I feel so very fulfilled after typing all of that, and this is my one single favorite, most meaningful and heartfelt post I've ever made. We are all so beautiful, and our God or Goddess or higher universal energy force or lack of religion at all is so personally beautiful to the individual, let's just appreciate what we have and be happy for the happiness of other's. It's so strange that this thread happened, because last night I had the most amazing personal journey and I was thinking all of these things. Maybe God wanted me to spread a message? Maybe not. We don't know, and we can't presume to know, so let's just stand in awe of the mystery and elegance of the universe and enjoy it.
 
wow! :0o:

well, all I have to say is that I do not think (in any way!) that Christainity is a dying religion.
I mean, look at out government. No abortipns, no gay marriages, and other things, just because they aren't Christain.
I believe in what JLAP has said here he says that what other people do in their own privacy is their own buisiness and shouldn't matter to you.
Weither they are gay, foriegn, or a different religion.

The thing is that I don't ever think that Christianity is going to die, but I do think that all religion needs to be taken out of our government.
 
Why do people like him care? I don't understand. Why cant he just do his own thing, be happy and worship whomever he wants how he wants and not worry about everyone else? I believe in God. It's great, but I don't advertise my view of god onto other people or try to "educate" them or change politics without an invitation. Take othat money spent on the church billboard, that I find personally offensive and an eyesore, and feed some hungry children, or get some help for a drug addict that wants it. I just don't understand how what I do affects yu, so why would you want to limit my freedom to be happy in the way I wish? It's not you, so why worry about it? Is it because the Christian Right has been a minority for so long that now they are afraid of losing their power? I'm not saying that to be a smart butt, just think about it. Let's say the entire world because a horrible atheist society. Homosexuality and abortions were commonplace. Why would it bother you if you did your own thing? According to your beliefs, they are the ones that are going to hell, so why bother? According to the Bible, Jesus went from place to place spreading his message, but he didn't stay in a town and force it on other people. He offered to tell them, and if they declined he went on. Why can't people just be like that? Look at me. If someone wants to talk about religion with me, I'll talk. I think it's fascinating, but I'll do it in an unbiased way and stay neutral. If they want to hear what my personal beliefs are, they can ask me and I'll tell them and that will be that.

Wow... :0o:
JLAP, if you look at the website, you will notice it is a Christian based newsgroup. Obviously it will speak from a Christian standpoint. They are not trying to persuade you or anything, they are just discussing whether or not Christianity is dying religion. Don't worry about it. It is like an online sermon. It's talking to those who want and are willing to listen. We'll even use your analogy of Christ going from town to town. If people listened to Him, He worked with it. If they didn't, he moved on. The same goes for that article, it you are willing to listen and want to listen, then it is the article for you. If you don't want to accept the message of that article then don't. I didn't see any spinning wheels on it trying to hypnotize you into agreeing with it.:eek:

Do you know what I think about God? I think he's so great, he's above all of this. I don't think God cares what I do in my bedroom, or if Susy has an abortion. Have you ever tried to put yourself in the position of another person, and tried to think of what it would be like to go through something like that and the internal conflict and the reasoning of how a person would come to the conclusion of having an abortion?
Actually, the Bible, being God breathed and all does mention Him caring what you do. He cares enough to give you a choice and it's up to us to make that choice. It makes me think of my parents. The give me the choice to obey or not obey and that works for me. If they did not give me a choice, that doesn't work for me and I'm more willing to rebel and all the such. He gives us a choice of whether or not to believe in Him. If we do, we do. If we don't, we don't. Either way we live with the consequences of our choice.

Women who are debating abortion are not the only people with internal conflict. Don't make that mistake of telling us to put ourselves in their shoes because short of getting pregnant ourselves, we can't do that (plus the men can't do that anyway:p ). Every human being suffers some sort of internal conflict, so we don't have to put ourselves in someone else's shoes although it does help us to get a perspective of our own lives. But what does being in someone else's shoes have to do with whether or not God is above all this anyway? He is above all this and ultimately what we type here changes nothing in his plan for what happens in our lives unless it is of course something he wants said. He and He alone is the only one who can persuade anyone one way or another.

So yea, there's my 2 1/2 cents. JLAP, it's always a pleasure; and we'll have to have at it again soon.... probably next post! LOL :beer:

PS Smiley's are fun... LOL
 
The thing is that I don't ever think that Christianity is going to die, but I do think that all religion needs to be taken out of our government.

Oh my, we have religion our gov't? I hope you don't mean Bush... I don't care what he is, he has abused a few too many powers, and I used to like him!

I don't think it's a matter of having or not having religion in our gov't. It is a matter of politicians standing on what they believe but not forcing it into our government. If abortion is to be made illegal, then it better be because the majority of America want it banned, not because a bunch of politicians force it through congress. That's the idea of democracy, rule by the majority. If the majority ban something, then it's banned. If the majority doesn't want something banned, then it's not banned. The way I see it is that abortion won't be banned on a national level until it's dealt with on a state level. If you want to have an abortion I'd suggest you stick to the states. Most of them don't care what you do anyway. Some do, but most don't.
 
Oh I guess I was just philosophizing in general and I was writing as I was thinking and I had just woken up. I think it was mostly coherent lol

This is a perfect example. You say you like your parents giving you the choice to obey or not to obey. That works for you, that's GREAT and I'm happy that works for you and I think if that's the kind of God you want, that's fine. But what if my idea of God is a being that doesn't say "Do this!" or "Don't do that!" but rather "Follow your heart!" and "Do what feels good!" I believe that our instincts are here for a reason. Why would God give us innate instincts that are bad? My God isn't some Scary old man, mine is more like a Hippie and is caring and understanding. The point is that even though we perceive our God in different ways, when we get right down to it I guess you could say it's the same being that manifests its self to the individual, and according to Christianity we accept Jesus , what does it matter what form our God takes? Same destination, different journey. That's why we should all share ideas in an unbiased manner and try to learn a little bit from each other.

So answer me, anyone, existentially without mentioning the Bible (Think for yourself!) , if you accept Christ and I accept Christ, but you live your life fundamentally and I live mine liberally or "new age" or "radically" or whatever, what does it matter in the end? Don't say I'm not a "Real Christian" Because if I believe in Christ and accept him, then I'm real. (I normally don't like to call myself Christian but for the sake of my fingers I'll do it)

As for politics, if a conservative Christian believes the world is going to end one day (many believe soon, ) why vote to restrict freedom for others if all of this BS is irrelevant in the big picture since we'll all be dead and see our individual consequences anyway? Why make life harder for other people if we're all going to die or "poof" be raptured or whatever it is you think is going to happen? How can these same people call themselves patriotic if they want to limit freedom to people who want to be treated equally? I'd also like to know there the sanctity of marriage is when the divorce rate is, what? 50%? Gay love is still love!

This notion of "Death" is interesting. Latin is a "Dead" language in the sense that few are fluent in it... but it's still here. If something changes forms of existence does it really die? If an ice cube melts, it's still there, just different. Where one person sees a death of Christianity, another person may see the uprising of a new, more liberal (as in interpreting God and the Bible individually rather than traditionally and congregationaly ) Christianity.
 
Am I just some radical or something?


I hope not!!!!

Well if Christianity were to subside, and lets say athiesm were to take power and no one were to believe in it anymore then wouldn't Christianity be dead?
sure it may ressurect, but christainity would be temorarily dead
 
I meant as in an a free-thinker not a crazy person who's going to blow up a building. It's sad because of what happened, that now a word has a pretty different meaning than it used to.

...Well so what if no one believed in it any more? They'd have access to history. After that it's their problem and it's absurd to worry about it. Let's say there was no record anywhere and no one in the future will have heard of it (yeah right) , then God is merciful and takes that into consideration. You can't accept Christ if you never heard about him.

It's amazing how my tune has changed from a few months ago. Woah what a surreal moment I'm having right now.

Say one day they look at Christianity as we look at the worship of Zeus or Anubis. Well... even today we have the option to worship Zeus and Anubis if we want. It's not our business what other people want to believe or not, so don't waste your time worrying about it. No use trying to stop it. It's like how some Christians believe in the NWO and also believe that is is foretold in the bible that it WILL happen. Well, if you believe it WILL happen anyway why bother trying to stop it if you believe it's "fate" or "prophecy" or whatever. Zappa, this honestly isn't directed at you, but rather a good parallel analogy I just thought of.
 
  • #10
I'm on board with the fundamentals of what Clint is saying, regardless of what the website says. I haven't had time to read it all yet, so I won't really comment there, yet.

...but rather "Follow your heart!" and "Do what feels good!"

lol. Now I have this great mental picture of big burly god standing in the clouds with a nice grizzly beard shouting "Follow your heart!" and "Do what feels good!". Yeah, god. That's what I'm talking about!

xvart.
 
  • #11
The reason "Christians" or any other group of followers of organized religion care what you do and how the government is run is because they are trying to control you. Just as the author of this article is warning of the "godless" trying to control peoples mind he is calling for "Christians" to force their ways on others. Oraganized relgion is mind control. Organized religions cause atrophy of the mind. Their goal is to make you one more goose stepping solider in their army of mental (and physical) conquest.


Also I found it quite funny when he tried to argue Darwinism was a religion. Philosophy maybe but not a religion. It doesnt even attempt to address the spritual aspect of humans how can you consider it a religion.

Though in the end this is all irrelivent as Muhammad was the last prophet of God.
 
  • #12
Hi Jlap. I guess people who believe in prophecy(myself included) want to warn people(as that is the aim of prophecy) so that they will repent and follow the Lord Jesus Christ. We know we cannot change what is to happen, but it is God's will that the warnings of prophecy(the signs of the times)should be preached to the glory of Jesus Christ, in the hopes that "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom". Remember God loved the world so much hat He sent His Son and His son preached of Hell in the hopes people would repent and not go there but live with Him. God is love.
 
  • #13
The reason "Christians" or any other group of followers of organized religion care what you do and how the government is run is because they are trying to control you. Just as the author of this article is warning of the "godless" trying to control peoples mind he is calling for "Christians" to force their ways on others. Oraganized relgion is mind control. Organized religions cause atrophy of the mind. Their goal is to make you one more goose stepping solider in their army of mental (and physical) conquest.


Also I found it quite funny when he tried to argue Darwinism was a religion. Philosophy maybe but not a religion. It doesnt even attempt to address the spritual aspect of humans how can you consider it a religion.

Though in the end this is all irrelivent as Muhammad was the last prophet of God.

Actually, if you look at the definition of religion you could argue Darwinism as a religion.

dictionary.com said:
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

Except for the detail in the first definition you could argue that Darwinism is indeed a religion. It is a set of beliefs that scientist practice in explaining how our world and the universe works, and it is definitely agreed on by a large number of people. So if you stuck solely to the definition of religion you could say that darwinism is a religion. The definition says nothing of spirituality, that is just something that has been associated with religion. But people generally don't think of Darwinism as a religion. I was pointing out that the author if he had chosen to, could say Darwinism is a religion.

By the last thing you said, I assume you are Muslim? Am I right?

JLAP said:
My God isn't some Scary old man, mine is more like a Hippie and is caring and understanding.

LOL, that's one of the coolest things I've ever read. At first I thought of some old man with a white beard and then the very next I was thinking Hippie with dreadlocks and one of those goofy hats! Talk about interesting perceptions of God.
 
  • #14
Lots of interesting cellular biology work says things about evolution that Darwin never dreamed of. Individual scientists can be and often are as dogmatic as any televangelist. But overall, scientific "beliefs" are based on the facts. New facts are found; incorrect ones are discarded and the set of beliefs change. It's the opposite of religion. If there's any faith involved, it's faith that the scientific method in tandem with the competing egos and ambitions of scientists will lead to truth. I'm not saying science is better than religion, it just has a different role. For instance, I want the airplane I ride next week to be based on science, not religion.
 
  • #15
"Darwinism" -- which is a media label created by critics of Darwin and not something used by biologists to describe their work -- is not a religion as it is not a belief. It is a scientific theory -- an IDEA empirically tested that explains the natural world. If the work of Darwin can be categorized for political purposes as a "belief" or a set of "beliefs" then everything we know about the natural world is nothing but a belief. One does not "believe" or disbelieve in the natural world unless one sees life through the filter of religious explanations of reality. Calling the science of Charles Darwin a "belief" is nothing more than projecting one's own religious worldview onto something which is in no way related to that view. Maybe one day someone will present an empirically tested scientific theory -- about as close to a fact as it gets -- that overturns Darwin and his ever expanding legacy -- although with each passing year science adds greater and greater empirical support to his initial insights into the natural world -- but until that day arrives, Darwin's theory of evoluton is as good as it gets when it comes to knowing -- as opposed to believing in -- the natural world.
 
  • #16
I don't see why some Christians get so pissed at the theory of evolution. I don't see why God couldn't have made everything through evolution.

That new Creation Museum in like... Kansas or some place is a total joke. Man walking with Dinosaurs. It's laughable. Some people don't think for themselves and just believe what they're told. Then again I shouldn't criticize them... on the other hand it's pretty absurd to me atleast.

I wonder why Darwin took back his theory on his deathbed. Maybe he went crazy or something.
 
  • #17
"I wonder why Darwin took back his theory on his deathbed. Maybe he went crazy or something."

I've never heard that before, so being curious I did a quick- not extensive search and found this:

"After Charles Darwin's death it was claimed that he underwent a deathbed conversion to Christianity. Beyond being a common story frequently applied to famous non-believers, the claim can be dismissed by his never having left the church. The claims were refuted by Darwin's family, but resurfaced several times, often by those said to be agenda-driven."

Could it just be one of those urban legends? If anyone has a site to shed light on this please post, like I said I found this interesting.
 
  • #18
I don't see why some Christians get so pissed at the theory of evolution. I don't see why God couldn't have made everything through evolution.

That new Creation Museum in like... Kansas or some place is a total joke. Man walking with Dinosaurs. It's laughable. Some people don't think for themselves and just believe what they're told. Then again I shouldn't criticize them... on the other hand it's pretty absurd to me atleast.

I wonder why Darwin took back his theory on his deathbed. Maybe he went crazy or something.

Actually they did. Maybe not the t-rex or the sort as it's not documented, but they've found cave drawings of dinosaurs. They obviously would not have coexisted very long together. If you go by way of the Flood, the earth's climate changed and did support such animals. If you go by the asteroid (or whatever the current reason is) the earth's climate changed. No matter what you say is right, they're gone now and doesn't matter... how morbid.
 
  • #19
Wesley- I find those definitions lacking and full of problems. If I apply the same ideas those defintions do then physics can be defined as a religion. I am not saying I have a better definition, infact an anthropologist once looked and found 250+ different definitions of what constituted a religion so its something that is hard to define.
As for my personal beliefs I am agnostic though I find the teachings of Muhammad to be much more in tune with what I believe than any other relgion.

Also where are these cave drawings of dinosaurs? I would like to see this information. I have never heard of them. Pictures would be even better. And what were these cave drawings dated to?

As for the reason dinosaurs died out I believe it happened when they voted to allow gay marriage wasnt it. LOL No wait it was smoking that killed the dinosaurs.
 
  • #20
Originally Posted by Farmer Dave View Post
The thing is that I don't ever think that Christianity is going to die, but I do think that all religion needs to be taken out of our government.
Oh my, we have religion our gov't? I hope you don't mean Bush... I don't care what he is, he has abused a few too many powers, and I used to like him!

I don't think it's a matter of having or not having religion in our gov't. It is a matter of politicians standing on what they believe but not forcing it into our government. If abortion is to be made illegal, then it better be because the majority of America want it banned, not because a bunch of politicians force it through congress. That's the idea of democracy, rule by the majority. If the majority ban something, then it's banned. If the majority doesn't want something banned, then it's not banned. The way I see it is that abortion won't be banned on a national level until it's dealt with on a state level. If you want to have an abortion I'd suggest you stick to the states. Most of them don't care what you do anyway. Some do, but most don't.

well look at the pledge of alligence. Dwight Eisenhower put the "under god" in the pledge of alligence for the world to know that this country is under the one Christian god.
And the whole thing about trying to get evolution taken out of classes for science because it conflicts Christianity, or for the teachers to say that "the idea of Eviolution is only a theory".

It's amazing on how much a 'simple way of life' can affect so many lives.
 
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