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Church learns Vet was gay, cancels memorial

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  • #81
Indeed the "marriage" being discussed is solely a legal contract with the state that confers all manner of financial and obligation-related benefits and protections. To wish to deny those protections and financial benefits to gays is to simply lack humanity and a sense of fairness out of some misguided sense of Biblical obligation (nowhere in which it says to restrict the legal rights of heretics.)

Where has anyone suggested that homosexuals should be denied those rights and protections ??? ?
 
  • #82
Outsiders, I detest any sort of "reporting" on something like this because it's like snitching. The reason he got upset wasn't because you said it was sinful, but because you said it was as bad as pedophilia.

Thank you JLAP. I think the reason he really got upset was because he misunderstood what he read. I never defined or compared one sin to another. I just said they were all sins, they all fit under the SAME category...sin.

Awfully opinionated for a 14 year old, aren't we jm82792? Care to elaborate on your concurring opinions?

That's a cheap shot JLAP. Your only 3 years older than him, is it really fair to question his age?
 
  • #83
Wow, you're fast! I went and edited it and then you already posted. It WAS a cheap shot and I'm sorry I said it.

Still, JM. Please elaborate on your opinions.
 
  • #84
JLAP has already explained earlier the problem is homosexuals want to change the definition of marriage to make gay marriage more socially acceptable.
Being gay is already socially acceptable. Not very many people care anymore. Haven't you turned the TV on in the past few years? Homosexuality is represented in pop culture just like it is in normal culture, which is the way it should be. Do you want to pretend it doesn't exist or? People are openly gay now more than ever, and all I have to say about that is "finally". I'm not gay, but I can imagine it feels 536230568053x better to be able to come out and know that most people are going to respond with something like "Really? Awesome. So are we still gunna get pizza or what?" Honestly, I don't want to see two guys or two girls making out in public, but I don't want to see a heterosexual couple doing that either. I think PDA is gross every time no matter what.

... What's conservative about you, again?
Every fiscally-related reason you could ever think of (ESPECIALLY including welfare), I hate affirmative action on the grounds that its reverse discrimination, I don't think illegals should get any protection from the govt whatsoever (including driver's licenses), etc, etc, etc. Like I said, except for those 3 points....everything else. But these are topics for a different thread...
 
  • #85
So you're a conservative without most of the bad parts lol. Few people realize republicans are SUPPOSED to be about money, not the crap they are doing now.

In other words, you're the type of Republican I can be friends with without my head exploding lmao!
 
  • #86
Homosexuals should be entitled to everyone of those 1400 rights, but not under the term "marriage".

Did I miss a meeting where we divided up who got what words in the english language cause I really would have liked to own the word abscond cause its fun to say. :-))

Seriously though where do Christians believe their right to the word "marriage" comes from. And dont say the bible as the orgin of the the word marriage is anglo-french according to Merrium Webster. This would be the word comes from a language that the bible was translated into. If the orgin of the word was from a Semetic language well you might have an argument there. Seriously how did Christianity get a monopoly on the word "marriage"?
 
  • #87
Homosexuals should be entitled to everyone of those 1400 rights, but not under the term "marriage".

Because the term "marriage" SHOULD HAVE NO LEGAL IMPLICATIONS FOR ANYONE. Period.

I don't know why it seems to be so muddled here in the U.S.

There are TWO parts to a union: the legal recognition of partnership and the ceremony. These are two distinct parts and according to the Constitution they are not allowed to infringe on one another.

The ceremony; whether it be Christian, any other religion, or no religion at all is purely up to those parties involved; as long as no one is harmed, the law stays OUT. The result of this ceremony is in no way legally binding and has no other legal ramifications.

The legal recognition of union bestows the legal rights upon the parties involved. It's the same every single time; man-man, man-woman, woman-woman. Just as the law does not have its hand in the ceremony, the aspects of the ceremony do not hold overlapping authority with the law.

If this would be clearly defined in the US, we wouldn't have the problem. Frankly, whether a religious entity does or does not want to do something is up to them. HOWEVER, as long as said religious choices have LEGAL implications, something is broken.

The legal aspect of the union is the only part that should be considered by the law. The eyes of God and the eyes of the State are two different stories.
 
  • #88
{mod}

This is obviously a hot button topic, and you all will be commended at the end of the day if you follow a basic rule of this forum: treat each other with respect. With that said, please continue.

Oh, and don't bypass the word filter.

Amen, brother!

This warrants a second post. Be sure to READ XVART'S PREVIOUS POST IF YOU ARE PARTICIPATING IN THIS THREAD.

Keep it clean, keep it respectful, or you'll have us (us being mods) knockin' on your PM box door. ;)

{/mod}
 
  • #89
So it's OK to commit atrocities against people for the right reasons?



No, it's the truth. Ok, so there was never slavery of homosexuals, but there has been rampant discrimination, up to and including legal execution, for centuries.

Hate is hate. And, oddly enough, both times conservative churches were strongly pro-hate.

No hate here mate.

Strawman fallacy. I said that sexual orientation is an issue of physiology, not morality, and there is no doubt about that. Bisexuals respond physiologically to both sexes, and transgender do to their preferences.

The scarecrow fairy can't dig you out of this one. I personally know of someone who was gay and tried to hide it by having a heterosexual relationship. This may be surprising to you (more surprising to his GF at the time) but he got it up. Anyways the point is it is possible and bisexuals are proof of the pudding.

I'd ask you to debate the point, but since you clearly don't have a logical leg to stand on, you'd just embarrass yourself more.

I love you too man.

Older is irrelevant. The old definition of marriage forbid mixed-race marriages, and, surprise surprise, churches were against the repeal of anti-misegination laws.

Do different races have different genitals or something? Sorry to be so frank but as far as I know a woman is a woman and a man is a man no matter their ethnic background.

How does someone else's marriage dictate how you live?

Oh, that's right, because you're so narrow-minded and intolerant that you can't stand to know that other people are different from you.

Follow me here. You said "Why should I be forced to accept your definition of it? How about I force you to accept mine, whether you like it or not." How it is fair for you to re-define the institution of marriage but it's not OK for me to defend keeping it the same way God defined it? Who's the intolerant one?

If they're using the Bible as a reference for history, yes, ask them to stop, or your degree won't be worth much.

Another +5 Intelligence to JLAP. Quickly think about what degrees you currently hold that make you an academic elite. Now look up how many other people have your degree, feel humbled yet?

Oh, so you aren't a Christian then. No, sorry, you aren't, because you don't follow every single rule that Bob's First Church of Nowhere follows.

Your just becoming lazy now with all that logic you have. Put it to some good use!


I explicitly said not to commit the "No true scotsman" fallacy, and you reply with a textbook example.

Churches that accept gays may be a more liberal version of Christianity, but they are Christian, whether you like it or not. Next you'll claim that Catholics aren't Christian.

The scarecrow fairy is null, she's out of pixie dust. I could start a new cult spin off of the Bible too and call it Christianity. Does that mean it is? I could tell you 12X+48=96 and tell you that the X value is 2. How do we know that 2 is the right answer? You have to validate it. If someone tells you that X is 3 how can that be right? It goes the same with all Christian spin off cults, their values are validated against the Bible and if they negate it's not valid.


I'm sorry, what? How is letting others live their lives their way bigotry? Do you even own a dictionary? I ask nothing, nothing, but that you refrain for forcing others to follow your obsolete morals.

Stick two homosexual men or women in a remote cabin on a mountain. Are you saying that 10 months later you would expect to see a baby produced? How tolerant of yourself to call my morality obsolete.


There are also passages which say it's a mortal sin to wear cloth of two different fabrics and eat shelfish.

As logical of a person as you are, how come you don't take in considerance the time period and social culture of that time? Nah it's much easier to just bash the unknown.


So, you're content going to hell because you wear cotton-nylon blends?

I'm content knowing you have given up having a meaningful debate.


If this is what Christianity is about, then I would ally myself with Satan over God. Time for a regime change.

Mokele

That's the problem you don't seem to know what Christianity is about. You have labeled us as bigots, oppressors, haters and discriminators.
 
  • #90
If God cannot convince you that He is Holy and no sin will stand in His presence, I cannot, case closed. No one will go to Hell for wearing a polyblend, can you quote Jesus, the disciples, Paul, etc. on that? Doctrine still matters Jlap for not everyone who says they are a Christian is. Did Jesus commit Homosexuality? Can you guys prove it? Is it a relevant question if you want to call yourself a Christian? What is taking the name of the Lord in vain mean? Could it possibly mean calling yourself a Christian when you sin like the people He has condemned for those actions in the past? Or do you think taking the name of the Lord in vain is only saying God D@mn? That only sounds like a curse to me. Does anyone still think the Holy God will allow unchanged hearts to enter His kingdom? My work is done here case closed.
 
  • #91
Anything is possible with the power of imagination (insert cheesy Barney effects)


Christians are labeled that way because... well, that's what they do. Sure they do good stuff like feed the hungry in Africa , but they sure do make sure to get their preaching in.

In regards to polyblends, you said this:
"As logical of a person as you are, how come you don't take in considerance the time period and social culture of that time? Nah it's much easier to just bash the unknown."

In regards to homosexuality, I'm going to say this:
"As logical of a person as you are, how come you don't take in considerance the time period and social culture of that time? Nah it's much easier to just bash the unknown."

Think about that.



Zappa, I worship Christ, therefor I am a Christian, even though I prefer to say "Christ Follower." No, I can't say I can picture Jesus having sex with a man. I can't picture him having sex with a woman, either. And no, I don't think that's a relevant question if you want to call yourself a Christian or not. No, I don't think he'll allow unchanged hearts to enter His Kingdom. Look at me. I think my heart has changed a lot, especially when you go back and read some of my anti-God/Jesus posts from when I was an Atheist. So..... what's the problem here? You're saying although I love Jesus with ALL my heart, I'm not really a Christian. Let me guess, I don't really love him, right? I just think I do. I don't agree with your interpretation of the Bible, so that means I'm living in a fantasy land where I think I have a changed heart, but I don't really. Sure, makes sense to me!

I just REALLY considered if I love him with every last fiber, and I can't think of a way I don't. What's the problem again? Must be my imagination.
 
  • #92
Anything is possible with the power of imagination (insert cheesy Barney effects)


Christians are labeled that way because... well, that's what they do. Sure they do good stuff like feed the hungry in Africa , but they sure do make sure to get their preaching in.

In regards to polyblends, you said this:
"As logical of a person as you are, how come you don't take in considerance the time period and social culture of that time? Nah it's much easier to just bash the unknown."

In regards to homosexuality, I'm going to say this:
"As logical of a person as you are, how come you don't take in considerance the time period and social culture of that time? Nah it's much easier to just bash the unknown."

If only homosexuality was avoided for the same reasons as eating pork, shellfish or wearing blended cloth, then you would have an argument.
 
  • #93
Who's to say it's not? I think there are added health risks of having anal sex compared to vaginal sex.

No snickering, kids. This is a legitimate argument.

Taken from wikipedia:
infections, due to the high number of infectious microorganisms not found elsewhere on the body, and physical damage to the anus and the rectum due to their vulnerability. An insufficient amount of lubricant can make it especially painful or injurious

Amoebiasis; Chlamydia; Cryptosporidiosis; Giardiasis; Gonorrhea; Hepatitis A; Hepatitis B; Hepatitis C; Herpes simplex; Human papillomavirus; Lymphogranuloma venereum; Pubic lice; Salmonellosis; Shigella; Syphilis; Tuberculosis
Anal cancer,typhoid fever. I didn't include HIV since it wasn't around back then.


Physical damage:
ano-rectal trauma, hemorrhoids, anal fissures,[20] and rectal prolapse. Damage is more likely if intercourse is forcible or aggressive, if alcohol or other drugs have dulled sensitivity, if communication is poor, or if technique is clumsy.

Mentions Incontinence, too.

What a strange turn this has thread has taken. I think that's at least on par, if not worse, with eating undercooked pork. Wouldn't you say?
 
  • #94
This will go on and on........................................................................
Yes I am opinionated ,this will go forever on arguments.
Really I don't want to go on and on with this.
I do agree with overidder completely so there is my response.
Ever noticed JLAP how America's christians has been decreasing
while China and other countries have rapidly been increasing in them.
They are getting killed for there beliefs and there still are growing in numbers ?
Evolution changes there theories every time there is something "unusual".
I don't care if I lose a few trades for what I believe in.
 
  • #95
Sure, I've noticed this. Particularly in areas high in Catholics (no birth control, you know.)


They can have all they want, along with the poisonous food, toys, and pretty much everything else that's coming out of there these days.


You need to articulate your thoughts better. First of all, no one is not going to trade with you :) What are you going on about? I'm having a hard time trying to make out what you're trying to say.


One could say the oppressed (hell, even depressed) in the third world are looking for hope within desolation. It totally sucks that anyone is getting killed, for whatever they believe in, whether they be atheist, Buddhist, Christian, or Muslim. Or even Discordianists!
 
  • #96
What other countries? All the countries with the highest standards of living have enormous atheist populations. Japan, USA, all Scandanavian countries, England....
Atheism is actually growing rather quickly in those countries as well. Sure, not as fast as it was during the 60s and 70s though. The third world is the only place (with the exception of Germany) that has been getting more religious.
 
  • #97
If you marry a man, how the heck are you supposed to kiss the bride?!
 
  • #98
I agree with Zappafan that not everyone who says they are a Christian is, but I think we probably disagree about which ones we're referring to. And, by the way, same-sex marriage is the only way a woman ever gets to kiss the bride.
 
  • #99
After jumping through the thread and reading a number of semi-random posts and responses, I think I just have one thing to say really:

As I stated before, I am a Christian/follower of Christ/etc., whatever you want to call it. My dad is a pastor and I've grown up in a Christian home my whole life. I may also be a bit naive about certain things, but if you believe that the bible holds any truth and that "truth" can indeed be fact in form, This is the mission of Christ and therefore the mission of those who follow him.

"The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for
the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to release the oppressed,
to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
Luke ch4 for anyone that cares.

or here's the translation from The Message if you prefer

"God's spirit is on me:
he's chosen me to preach the Message of good news to
the poor,
Sent me to announce pardon to the prisoners and
recovery of sight to the blind,
To set the burdened and battered free,
to announce, "This is God's year to act!"


Nowhere in any of this does it say "to judge and condemn and say 'you're not good enough for My love'." As a follower of Christ, it is my job/obligation/duty/calling...my mission to do what he did(I know, you get the point, stop saying that already, etc.). My first and foremost mission is to express to everybody around me, without prejudice, that my God is a God that Loves fiercely and abundantly and without condition. In His love lies strength, not weakness; hope, and not discrimination.
My mission is to express to all I come into contact with through words and actions that this God is madly and passionately in love with them and is striving and seeking to bring to them the realization of this love. I admit, I really suck at it, but I'm trying.

I would personally like to apologize for my own past behaviors that have not held in accordance with what I've just said. I'm sorry for judging in my mind and in my words. I'm sorry for tearing down instead of building up. I'm sorry for ignoring the poor and the less fortunate. I'm sorry for talking instead of doing.

The truth is, we're in a war, and we have a common enemy. To anybody who would call themselves a Christian(I don't know how many of you are here on this forum, and if this is what you're already doing, Awesome!), this is my challenge. Fight for the things that are truly worth fighting for. Fight against oppression, poverty, tyranny, and hate. Choose your battles. Stop shooting down the people you're supposed to be giving everything to. Jesus said "greater love has none than this, that a man give up his life for his friends" and "now love, as I have loved you". Stop grappling with those who don't know Jesus and start dying to yourself. Start giving up your life for them. Fill your boots, man!



Ok, that's really all that I wanted to say...........um.....thanks for reading?

/end novel
 
  • #100
JLAP your 2 years older than me and I'm graduating in 1 year so you not that distant from me. I agree with you too growerguy.
 
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