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Thread: Church learns Vet was gay, cancels memorial

  1. #41
    Kung Fu Fighting! NeciFiX's Avatar
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    This country was built on Christian Principles and Freedom and EQUAL RIGHTS. Christian Principles state Homosexuality is a sin. However, we have freedom of religion, not everyone is a Christian. By not allowing Homosexuals equal rights, we are denying the very ground our Founding Fathers set in place, all because of segregation.
    - NeciFiX

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    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    This country was NOT built on Christian principals! I believe one of the FF's was an agnostic or atheist or something. In fact, a few of them (my memory is rusty) were probably Diests, which aren't the same as Christians.

    This country was founded on religious freedom, NOT religion. You'll find not all Christians think it's sinful, too. At least not the good ones

  3. #43
    Kung Fu Fighting! NeciFiX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustLikeAPill View Post
    This country was NOT built on Christian principals! I believe one of the FF's was an agnostic or atheist or something. In fact, a few of them (my memory is rusty) were probably Diests, which aren't the same as Christians.

    This country was founded on religious freedom, NOT religion. You'll find not all Christians think it's sinful, too. At least not the good ones
    Yes, but they refused an Atheist to become part of the Supreme Court or something along those lines because he was an Atheist. Not sure if he got the job.

    I'm Christian but I find everyone should be equal regardless of who you are (unless you're a murderer, criminal, etc.)

    Excuse me if I'm wrong, my US History is rusty. That or I just slept too much in class.
    - NeciFiX

  4. #44
    zappafan's Avatar
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    Okay, I do not believe Good Christians condone marrying homosexuals in a church. I think you know that Jlap. I do not believe laws can change a heart, so I say we should preach what God calls sin and the good news of His Son. That is true separation of church and state. However, I don't want to see people with political agendas twisting scriptures and liberalizing the churches(by possibly infiltrating or starting liberal churches) to further a political agenda using God as a tool, just like I don't want to see Christians thinking they can change hearts with laws apart from the Gospel. I believe same sex is still sin and wrong, but everything will go "left" eventually and that is prophecy, so Christians should still preach that these things are sin in order to perhaps save some. Laws cannot do that, and Christians being taught that politics is the means to that end are being misled.

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    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustLikeAPill View Post
    Excuse you. Where have I said we do not want equal rights? I said equal rights weren't enough because, if you'll think about it, we won't have them until we can marry. Then we'll be equal. We have the SAME rights, not EQUAL rights.
    Once again if Civil Unions were given the same United States legal rights as a marriage it would be equal. What would prevent you from getting a civil union? Nothing. What would prevent you from having the same legal rights as a marriage? Nothing because you'd have the same rights as a marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustLikeAPill View Post
    It does segregate love. Civil unions are NOT equal to marriage. They won't be until it's called the same thing.
    You keep repeating this over and over, how wouldn't your RIGHTS be equal?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustLikeAPill View Post
    And we can debate about how to interpret sin, too. To me, no, homosexuality is not a sin. It's innate. If God didn't want there to be gay people, there wouldn't be. It's in our nature. You can say it's innate in a pedophile to be... a pedophile. That's a mental illness. It's sad, and needs treatment. If you say "well homosexuality IS a mental illness" I'll say the science doesn't say so at all, and in the real world, science trumps an old archaic book.
    How can you debate that homosexuality isn't a sin? If God didn't make us able to be gay then how would we have free will? It's the same with being a murder, or pedophile or anything... you can choose to do it. If I wanted to go out right now and start a homosexual relationship with some buff guy I could but I choose not to. Science is a great tool but it trumps nothing when it comes to the big questions, the ones that really matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustLikeAPill View Post
    If "it's just a word" and "your freedom won't be limited", why don't we call marriage something else? Why don't we do away with it and have Civil Unions or Domestic Partnerships for everyone, if you say freedom wouldn't be limited? Then we'd all be equal. OR, let's get rid of the government's role in marriage and leave it ENTIRELY up to the churches, where it should be, what with separation of church and state. Then I'd be quite happy because if one church wouldn't do it, the next one would.
    Maybe because the word marriage has a bigger meaning that you can't seem to grasp.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

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    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeciFiX View Post
    This country was built on Christian Principles and Freedom and EQUAL RIGHTS. Christian Principles state Homosexuality is a sin. However, we have freedom of religion, not everyone is a Christian. By not allowing Homosexuals equal rights, we are denying the very ground our Founding Fathers set in place, all because of segregation.

    Your right but where does marriage come from? That's the problem. Explain to me how homosexuals cannot have equal rights if their unions are called Civil Unions instead of Gay marriages? That is if they have word for word, the same written legal laws as heterosexual marriages do.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

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    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustLikeAPill View Post
    This country was NOT built on Christian principals! I believe one of the FF's was an agnostic or atheist or something. In fact, a few of them (my memory is rusty) were probably Diests, which aren't the same as Christians.
    We've had this discussion already in the past. This country was built on Christian/Judea principals.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustLikeAPill View Post
    You'll find not all Christians think it's sinful, too. At least not the good ones
    Find me a Christian that denies homosexuality as a sin. I'd say all Christians love homosexuals the same as heterosexuals, just as we are commanded to love the murders, the thieves, the rapists etc. We love everyone as our neighbor but that does not mean homosexuality, murdering, stealing and raping isn't a sin.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

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    This country was started with the influences of John Locke, whos political theory in all practicality requires there to be an omnipitant diety who guides nations. Being as the Near Easts totallitarian agriculture (and its religions) dominated both Europe and the English colonies the foundation of our country would be based in the traditions of Aberham. Therefore as much as it doesnt support the ideal of seperation of church and state our country was started with religious principals in mind.

    As for the word marriage should refer to unions done under religious guidelines and all unions not performed by a religous figure head (Priest, Pastor, Imam, etc) should be called a civil union.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

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