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Thread: Don't ask John Kerry questions...or else!

  1. #17
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    I'm not convinced that he was even being arrested (at first). I think they were trying to escort him out as being disruptive. I've said it twice now and I'll say it again: the world we live in is always being videotaped. Of course this guy is going to act like that because since he believes he is being unjustly treated (which I don't believe he was) he acted out because he knew the world would see. After his continued outbursts is when more force was applied. I'm sure it's going to be a mess for the police there; but only because of PR. If there were no videotapes in that room this would not be such a PR nightmare. It's on youtube, and everyone is going to see it.

    He's got his 15 minutes of fame fighting against "injustice."

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  2. #18
    Nepenthusiast's Avatar
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    I think that deciding what went on exactely is beyond the scope of youtube. I think Seedjar is prbably right about what went on. I still don't think they had to Tazer him though.

  3. #19
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    I completely agree with Joe's assessment of what happened. I'm just saying that I think his actions were motivated in part by knowing that he was making a scene. I refuse to believe that he was that passionate about his questions; but maybe I am just ignorant or skeptical of youth that conduct themselves in such a manner.

    I also don't believe he intended to listen to the answer to his question about why he was being arrested. He just kept resisting and yelling. I think if you really wanted to know why you were being arrested you would actually conduct yourself in a manner that would allow yourself to listen; which he clearly wasn't.

    I think he got exactly what he deserved. I hope his student peers tell him he is an idiot and don't buy into all the publicity he's getting about "injustice." I almost guarantee that he is sitting around at a bar laughing about all this and getting a lot of attention.

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  4. #20
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    The student was doing a common prectice of filibuster on Kerry. Can't you guys see that? The cops did use excesive force. I have seen the footage too. You had 4 cops against one scrawny college kid. He could have easily been held down with a knee in the back and handcuffed. Even with one cop on each limp he could have been subdued without the use of a tazer. I do think it is an extreem use of force. Tazers are considered "non lethal", but they can kill Think about if that kid had a pacemaker. Unlikely, but not impossible. Many (not all) cops think they are above the law and have the "right" to do as they wish to uphold the law. Tazers are ment to be a last resort just like pulling your gun, but instead cops choose to pull them out and use them at will because of their "non-lethal" status. Do you think there is a reason many departments do not allow tazers now? Had the cops cuffed the guy like they should have he would not have been flayling his arms. It is also how you aproach someone as well that makes them act a certain way. Granted the Student did not approach the situation with very much couth, but the cops didn't either. there are techniques to subdue someone with your bare hands. Especialy if you out number the guy 4 to 1. Just because youhave a tazer does not mean you have the right to use it at the drop of a dine. If it takes a little longer to subdue the situation then so be it, but it can be done without using a tazer. It has been that way in the bast. A tazer was ment to take the place of killing someone with a gun not as an every day means to shut someone up.

    Another way to prove my point the day after this story there is a dash cam showing a LEO repeatedly tazering a lady. He claimed the tazer was malfuntioning, but if that was the case he should have pulled the leads instead of letting it repeatedly fire on her. There are other means of subueing people without the risk of killing them.
    JB
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  5. #21
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    The second link I posted shows exactly what happened from start to finish. Obviously he wasn't going to be arrested at the start, it escalated to that. There's no question that he was being obnoxious, but whether or not the UPD handled the matter correctly is the key. Once again I doubt the arrest was part of his prank and was unexpected. I just don't see how a tazer was needed in the situation...
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  6. #22
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    Regardless if he was bating them or not. He should not have gotten tazered. If I know I can get a rise out of you and make you do something wrong i may take it. LEO are suposed to have dicipline and keep a level head. Many do a good job at that, but some take their power a little over board. I applaud those people that put cameras in their car and get LEO's to show thier true colors. I admit I have more respect for LEO's lately (I am maturing and learning alot about myself. No nothing has happened), but I still do believe there are alot of bad apples among them. Those bad apples need to be exposed. Weeded out if you will. You would not let a bad doctor practive medicine so why would you let a bad LEO enforce the law? Many times video is the only way your going to win a case against a LEO because it is your word against theirs, and they are the ones mandated and have more respect in the judicial system. So you have to PROVE they were wrong so video and audio is the only way to do that.

    I still believe tazers should be used as a last resort right before the use of a gun. Not to subdue an awnery teenager who refuses to shut his trap. You just remove him from the room.
    JB
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  7. #23
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    I still think the University Police did their job. They were escorting him out of the auditorium when he started flailing around and trying to evade them. A larger police officer was able to grab him and carry him out at which point he still escaped and started becoming even more resistant. I have no idea what the "rule book" for tazering is in the University of Florida Police Department handbook but he was yelling, resisting, and attempting to make their job harder if not impossible.

    Putting cuffs on him seems to me to be a more difficult task. One would think it would be easy; but, I think, doing their job, could've injured him accidentally the way he was resisting and forcing cuffs on him in the state he was in. I agree that it is a slippery slope; but, as was said in the first news clipping, he had no harm. Trying to put cuffs on a guy that is flailing around, especially on the ground, could result in a broken arm or something like that. It would've been considered "excessive force" either way. Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  8. #24
    NICK,NICK,NICK!!!!! Indians....... likeAstone76's Avatar
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    "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever."- 1984
    Here's to the first of the of the day fellas!! To old, D.H. Lawrence!!!!

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