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Snake Legal troubles

  • #21
I'll try to give an update.

I took Lucy to to Cape Fear Serpentarium. The guy took a quick look and said it was a eastern Kingsnake. Personally I don't think you can look at a common kingsnake and decide it's an eastern as fast as he did. If you're looking at a wild snake that was found in a certain area I think you can be quite certain which one you have.

Anyway, the guy told as far as he knew there was no "Protected" kingsnakes. I told him that the Outer banks King was on the species of special concerns list. He told me that that list really don't mean anything. There is no protection for animals on that list. The state told me different. They said that you couldn't keep, sell, or kill the animals on that list.

The guy there showed me their permit to keep endangered animals and it listed all the snakes on that list. It listed the southern hognose. Last I checked the Sothern hognose was on the species of special concern list not the endangered. Maybe my info is out of date concerning that, but that doesn't explain the other differences in their info.
He also said that banning one species because it resembled another is very strange. On the way home I thought of something else really weird. If it is illegal to have an eastern kingsnake because it closely resembles an outerbanks, then why is it not illegal to have an eastern hognse because it's harder to tell them apart from the Southern (which is endangered) than it is to tell the two kingsnakes.

Anyway the guy called the herpetologist that decides which reptiles to put on the different lists and left a message for him to call him back. He also left a message to the woman I talked to from the state that started all this.

I'm going to call him tomorrow and see if he has heard anything.

After I got home the vet I left the message with called me back and I made an appointment for Nov 3rd to take her in. They are going to take pics, do scale counts and determine which species she is.

Today I got a call form the wildlife officer that I was trying to get intouch with in the first place. So I asked him about the kingsnake issue. He told me that he was unaware of any protection for eastern kingsnakes. He's going to research it and call me back. He did tell me that you are not allowed to keep any wild animals without a permit. The woman from the state told me that you can have up to 4 wild snakes. So it seems that nobody really knows whats the laws are even the people that enforces them. These are the same people that protects the cp's here.
???

I'll keep you informed.
 
  • #23
Geez. They ought to be embarrassed at all that misinformation floating around! Seems like no one knows what the laws are. But if you have conflicting laws on the books, outdated lists, etc.....then what good is any of that doing what it was supposed to protect?

Maybe its look brighter for Lucy after all. :)
 
  • #24
Here is an interesting tidbit that could resolve this whole thing rather easily. According the the rules that govern DNR/F&W, if they come to search your house they are only allowed to search the rooms that you give them permission to search. And if they can not physically see the animal in question then there is nothing they can do to you about it.

So, just quit talking to DNR?F&W and put Lucy in a back room or some such. If they come over to your house then close the door to that room and tell them it is private and they are not allowed to go in there. They are required to respect that request.
 
  • #25
Lucy who?

???
 
  • #26
Huh, Cape Fear? I know the head venomous reptile curator there!

Anyhow, my advice is the 3-call-rule : Whenever dealing with *any* bureaucracy, governmental or private, assume that the person you're talking to is clueless. Thank them for their time, then call back again a few days later with the same question. Repeat until you get the same answer 3 times in a row. Usually that takes close to a dozen calls and over a week. I've had people tell me flatly contradictory things mere hours apart, and I've corrected the employees based on the rulebook online. This goes double with reptile rules, which are so rarely an issue that workers just don't have the familiarity.

Best of luck,

Mokele
 
  • #27
Rules

There's always the "no show, no tell" rule. Now that you are aware that some "official" thinks you might be violating some law. You should learn as much as you can of the actual laws and regulations and how the authorities with jurisdiction are enforcing them, to prepare for any possible future confrontation (may your recent telephone encounter be the extent of that), and at the same time minimize confessing to anything. Remember, keep things in the "theoretical" realm whenever possible. Sometimes motivated authorities feel the need to investigate whenever they hear tell of a possible violation.

Last year we discovered a "Desert Tortoise" entering our chain-link fenced property, at least five miles from the nearest natural habitat. After contacting the authorities and reading the rules concerning these amazing animals, I discovered there were no contingencies for such an eventuality - and we were not permitted to posses the animal (period). While giving out no names or physical addresses, I finally received sensible advice from "Arizona Game and Fish Department" AGF. They advised releasing the animal ASAP inside the National Park at a known habitat location (base of some hills). Here's hoping this amazing creature was able to adjust to this relocation. With the current rules, this was its best hope. We believe it was flushed out of its home by development taking place in the nearest habitat area to our property.
 
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