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Thread: San Francisco considers injection room

  1. #17

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    [QUOTE=Outsiders71;847146]"His research also has shown an increase in addicts seeking drug treatment and a decrease in abandoned syringes, needle-sharing, drug-related crime and other problems since the clinic opened, he said."

    The problem with the above is it doesn't show how they measured and came up with these results. Research can be skewed, and stats are almost always abused. What marks an increase of addicts seeking drug treatment? How many were seeking treatment before hand and after? How did they measure the decrease in drug-related crimes? It is a given that there would be a decrease in syringes and needle sharing, so that's not impressive results. Can anyone find some actual data on these studies?

    I agree more information on the study would be useful. However I feel I need to point out that you were making wild accusation about people being drug abusers and claiming that this will increase the problem based on absolutely no evidence at all. Show me some data on how this is going to increase the problem. Show me data on how this will encourage new users. Show me how this will educate people in drug use and create more problems. You present no data for your point of view but demand data to support a view that disagrees with yours. Depending on no evidence and personal attacks versus actually saying something constructive or debating the topic is pointless and a weak way to attack an idea.



    Also access to treatment through the clinic is implied in the fact that there was a measurable increase in the number of people seeking treatment. If access to treatment was on offered at the clinic the number of people seeking treatment would have stayed the same or gone down.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  2. #18
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    Although I am more inclined to agree with outsiders on this one, it does sound like a innovative idea to a thorny problem. I for myself doubt that this would have any practical value for actually helping more people seek treatment because I have a hard time believing that drug users would frequent the place if they felt they were going to get preached the standard “drugs are bad, mmmkay?” mantra to them, because im sure they have heard it before - but then again treatment is not the goal.

    I believe that the idea merits a trial, at the very least-

    IF
    1)drug users actually use the place
    2)it actually has the benefits that it hopes to achieve

    (those are only questions that would be answered by a real trial)

    If 1 & 2 are found to be true then perhaps it should stay. Im have a hard time believing that it would achieve its goals, but if it has a chance to, then it should be tried.
    that makes no logic

  3. #19
    Moderator Schmoderator Fluorescent fluorite, England PlantAKiss's Avatar
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    I think some people confuse recognizing there is a problem and trying to make something SAFER as being the same as condoning it.

    Its no different than trying to lower teen pregnancies by making condoms and sex education more available to teens. Accepting the reality of a situation is not the same as saying a certain behavior is OK or good. Turning up your nose and looking away because you don't approve doesn't change anything.

    What about homeless people? Would you rather see the homeless huddled under bridges, sleeping on park benches or pieces of cardboard on the street for you to step over...or would you rather offer them a shelter so they don't freeze to death in the winter?

    Accepting the fact that some young teens have sex, some people got hooked on drugs and some people are so down-and-out they can't take care of themselves doesn't mean you think those issues are great situations. First you try to make a situation safe, THEN you try to offer assistance to eliminate or improve it. I'm sure any safe rooms for junkies would also offer information on getting help. I'd rather have a room like that than have a child find a used needle on the street and get stuck.
    "Fox terriers are born with about four times as much original sin in them as other dogs." - Jerome K. Jerome

  4. #20
    War. War never changes. Est's Avatar
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    Thank you Suzanne, you just saved my fingers a lot of work.

    And for those looking for more data / case studies, see: Northern Europe.
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  5. #21
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    I would also add that if there is a problem or something isn't right, any change in procedure or application (even if considered worse) is better than keeping the status quo. We don't solve problems or make things better by staying stagnant.

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

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  6. #22
    Gardening freak! tommyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by likeAstone76 View Post
    How about taking the funds they used to help support these addicts habbit, and use it on treatment programs for them? Talk about putting a band-aid on cancer.

    How about a special bar for AA? A casino for gambling addicts? Prositutes for rapists maybe? What's the difference?

    The war on drugs has failed, but this is not the answer.

    Leave it to San Fransicko.

    Agreed. While we're at it let's give 11 year olds condoms.......oh wait.....
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  7. #23
    Lauderdale's Avatar
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    Would you rather have had those 800 people die?
    Frankly, yes.

    And FYI, making such a general statement isn't nice at all.
    Drug addition is not nice.

  8. #24
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    I'm very sorry you have that attitude towards life, and please go back and re-read his statement and mine and you'll see that making the general statement of "Anyone who supports this must be a drug abuser themselves." is incredible far-fetched. Maybe you got what I said confused?

    If you still hold that opinion, Ktulu and I will be holding our annual DopeFeast Extravaganza party next Saturday starting at 8. Free clean needles for all who attend, but it's BYOH (Bring your own Heroin). PAK, EST, Xvart, and any other supporter of safety and not being dead (see: drug addict according to Outsider's and perhaps Lauderdale's definition) are invited. RSVP as soon as possible, please.


    And Tommy, Absolutely. Do I think 11 year olds should be having sex? Not no but HELL no! Do I know they are going to have sex anyway? Yes, yes they will and if they are going to do it they should use condoms (Lil' Trojans lmao JK!) and if a girl wants the pill, hell yes she should get it if she's going to do what she wants anyway. Kids are curious and not all of them have caring, nurturing parents who can teach them what's appropriate for an 11 year old and what's not.

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