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San Francisco considers injection room

  • #61
Sounds like you need to discover science and realize that we're no longer living in the 7th century...

You obviously don't know what science is then and BTW science arose as a discipline in the 17th century.

There's six characteristics to science:

1) Observability
2) Consistency
3) Natural - Does not consider processes & hypotheses that can't be observed or studied objectively (the supernatural).
4) Predictability
5) Testability
6) Tentativeness

Science is empirical which means the knowledge must be based on observable phenomena and capable of being experimented for its validity by other researchers working under the same conditions.

Do you see how #3 refutes your claim?
 
  • #62
How is it a low blow? I've never attended a NA meeting nor plan to because I don't abuse drugs. Just like I don't attend AA meetings because I don't have a drinking problem.

That may be so; but, you don't have to be an alcoholic or addicted to narcotics to go to a meeting. Some you do, the closed meetings for confidentiality purposes. Many are open to public. In fact, I've sent non alcoholic college students to AA meetings as a developmental judicial sanction and then report on what they learn about alcoholics and their behavior. I believe JLAP was suggesting to go for the experience, not because he was claiming you were an addict.

there is a difference between using drugs and abusing drugs......

This is so very true. You can't assume that everyone that utilizes the injection room is going to be abusing drugs.

Trying to get back on topic, I think we have to look at whether this program would be beneficial in achieving desired outcomes.

Could an injection room prevent the spreading of intravenous diseases in the community? Yes, since sharing needles would be negated. Could an injection room prevent death from overdosing? Yes, since there would be trained staff available. Could an injection room be a possible first step for someone trying to quit their drug habit in a safer and controlled environment? Yes. Of course I'm not arrogant or ignorant enough to say that this would be the only use. It goes back to the original article when they say:

yahoo said:
While 800 overdoses have occurred on the premises, none resulted in death because of the medical supervision provided at InSite, said Thomas Kerr, a University of British Columbia researcher who has extensively studied the program. His research also has shown an increase in addicts seeking drug treatment and a decrease in abandoned syringes, needle-sharing, drug-related crime and other problems since the clinic opened, he said.

I think any and all of those outcomes are desired by almost everyone; which, with the limited response and limited explanation of methodology and findings, they seem to be achieving. Can anyone really say that this program is not achieving some outcomes that they align themselves with?

yahoo said:
I prefer the approach of the Vancouver Police Department, which was: 'We don't like the idea of this, but let's look at the evidence and at the end of three years we will tell you either this is something we can support or it's something we can't support,'

I'm sure if I thought long and hard enough about it, I could come up with many initiatives that I personally don't support, but after reviewing evidence I see how it makes a positive difference and can then feel more comfortable knowing that people do care and do want to make a difference. That's the attitude that creates solutions. I know I sound like a broken record here; but, just saying that drug users shouldn't use drugs in the first place is not a solution. It clearly hasn't worked.

Finally, stay on topic. This topic is not a sparring match about past personal interactions. I would hate to see this topic have the same exact fate for the same exact reason as every other topic with the slightest mention of religion in it: the closed or deleted pile.

xvart.
 
  • #63
Sigh...I just can't win with some people :)

I don't see how someone could utilize it to try and quit. I mean.... If they are trying to quit why is it OK to practice dangerous behavior until you try and kick the habit? Why not just use it all-along?
 
  • #64
as i stated.....if your truely addicted even cutting your dose in half every couple of days will make yah go through the withdrawl symptoms.....someone could decide they want to quit but refuse to do it cold turkey(dont blaim some one for this if they are addicted bad enough, cold turkey can kill yah) and now want clean needles and a nurse to help them out while they dial down the amount they are using......gotta know though that most using this service have no interest in quiting so as i say....private funding, not tax dollars, dont supply any drugs and dont hold the nurses accountable if teh addict brings in crap and it kills them...........
 
  • #65
I also think that it could be used by some as treatment since being in a supervised facility is more productive to progress towards treatment instead of an environment where the user is surrounded by other users where it would be increasing more difficult to make progress.

Again, I think that would be a very small minority but I think it is a viable option considering the alternative methods of seeking treatment. If anything, a controlled facility may make the user more comfortable in facilities and more open to stronger drug addiction treatment facilities since I would imagine that could be a scary environment.

xvart.

edit: Rattler, I agree that finding funding for a program of this nature would be difficult and at least in preliminary stages should not be publicly funded by tax dollars. If there were significant and measurable outcomes then I think it might be more acceptable for tax dollars from particular communities where the facilities are.
 
  • #66
getting used to and living on government hand outs is how most(and i do mean most and not all) these ppl get where they are....cant see how more guberment beurocracy can help......if you like the plan donate funds to the cause......guberment checks are already paying for alot of the drugs....cant like finanacing both ends of it out of my tax dollars..... one is bad enough, both is idiotic.....either pay for the drugs or pay for the help treating it, not both........better plan would be legalize the damn stuff......take away the DEA's funding and apply it to the programs.....i might could go for that idea.....prolly lower my taxes at the same time.......
 
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