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California fires.

California!
Five people dead! Thousands of homes destroyed and damaged! Billions of dollars in damages! Over a half a million people evacuated! Hundreds of thousands of acres burned!
Would somebody please send me a list of foreign countries that have offered help…so I can send a personal thank you note? :-(
 
trust me, i live ~20 miles away from the nearest fire, and the air is barely breathable and it's literally RAINING ash. Oh, and the sky is orange...i hope everyone else who is closer is ok...

Would somebody please send me a list of foreign countries that have offered help…so I can send a personal thank you note?

AWSOME quote! i'll try and remember it for the next time we help someone and get critized for it!
 
Before the wolves come out to tear me apart on this comment, I don't exactly suscribe to this theory but...........

I heard on the radio the other day that one of the reasons that the fires are so bad is that the California Department of Forestry has been slacking off on the controlled burns that they are suposed to regularly set to control the dead brush that accumulates in time. So these fires have more fuel than normal, hence the reason they are so bad. Just a thought. But this doesn't change the fact of how bad these fires are and the incredible amount of loss they are creating.

Would somebody please send me a list of foreign countries that have offered help…so I can send a personal thank you note?
How true...
 
The Feds have yet to offer any assistance.

FYI Hugo Chavez has offered aid to every US disaster for the past 6 years. Last winter he offered free/low cost heating oil to those who needed it. After Hurricane Katrina he offered assistance in the form of food, water, and generators with free/low cost fuel. No doubt that went over well with the no-bid contractors like Haliburton that charge the Feds (i.e. the taxpayers - you) $10 a gallon of gasoline.

Is it any wonder you don't hear of such offers in the news?

Back in the Reagan years a town in the midwest lost their bridge into town. No money from the state. They asked Reagan but nothing. They then asked the USSR which promised to rebuild the bridge. The Feds came up with money pronto after that.
 
The U.S. also refused Russia's offer to send oil sweeps when the wreck of the Exxon Valdez oil tanker occurred. It wasn't until a week later when there was public hue and cry over the burgeoning oil slick killing animals, fish and slicking the coastline that Exxon started to do something about clean-up. Those oil sweeps would have helped a lot.

I also heard that the fact that there has been a drought was actually a good thing as far as the fire goes because plant growth was less than normal from lack of water. Maybe they didn't do the controlled burns because of the drought?? There is only so much controlling you can do. I don't know if I'd want even professionals deliberately setting fire in a severe drought area.

I think the main reason the fires are so bad is very dry fuel, very low humidity and WIND.

Jan...I know where you are coming from with your comment but I think as far as fighting the fire (immediate need now), people who live far away aren't much help. (Time it takes to travel there). However, there WILL be a need for financial help and "after care" for a long time and that's where foreign countries could offer assistance.

By the way...today we are getting the first rain we've had in months. Its been so dry for so long, a lot of people including myself, made comments about how strange the rain looked... Its almost the end of October and last nite I was sweating taking out the trash...76 degrees at 9 p.m. It should be started to get pretty chilly outside. I have yet to shut my windows for the winter and the orchids are still outside. Everything is just hot and dry. I hope the rain continues for a few days but this will help a lot.
 
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I currently live in San Diego, and it has been crazy lately... My parents live about 3 miles away from the most damaged area, and they were evacuated (Their neighborhood made international news). Luckily they were able to return today. The national guard is currently in their area patrolling around with machine guns to protect from looters. We actually have been getting federal assistance fairly recently, and most importantly, the military has been able to participate in the firefight. This is great news because the military is the shiznit =). They can work during the nighttime hours and they work independently without the necessity of a Cal Fire Spotter (A crippling stipulation that seriously hinders efficacy). A few days ago the Governator declared a state of emergency, and shortly after, President Bush declared a federal emergency. FEMA stepped in with the national guard and has also provided airliner-sized jets to drop massive amounts of fire retardant that cover up to a quarter of a mile. We have had firefighters come in from all over the place, and the San Diego community has been extraordinarily helpful to the evacuees, by providing so many necessary things to evacuation centers (food from restaurants, water, tents, beds, clothing, pet/farm animal care, even massages and yoga!). With one-sixth, or half a million people having been evacuated, this is incredible news, because the community is seriously helping each other out to the fullest.

On another note, yes we do have a seriously flawed government. In fact I don't even have the time or energy to go into it, but the level and frequency of shortcomings is staggering. During Katrina, Cuba offered to send over some 300 Doctors to provide medical help to the refugees. This is coming from a third world country, with one of the best national health care systems in the world (one of the lowest infant mortality rates too). Of course, Bush denied all outside help (including from the Netherlands and other areas) and Katrina victims paid the price of a proud and autocratic government. Incidentally, Blackwater got contracts to patrol the area, and they got paid handsomely. They were in fact paid by taxpayers, with funds siphoned off by our monkey-like leader to put money into his buddies' pockets.

Anywho... on a lighter note, people in San Diego really are awesome. Everyone has been helping out each other, donating some serious amounts of items and necessities. The amount of items donated at the Football Stadium (Qualcomm Stadium) outnumber the amount of people that need things. It really is wonderful to see these affluent people giving as much as they have. I watched one CEO of a construction company provide multiple multi-Kilowatt generators and propane tanks to his neighborhood (my parents' neighborhood) and he was even taking a tractor to the streets to clear out fallen trees and obstructions. Some people in the more rural areas have stayed back and fought back smaller fires, preventing them from becoming huge fires. They have also posted up signs saying "Looters will be Shot!". I think this is freakin' awesome. They have formed patrol crews to protect their neighbors' properties and farms from looters, and have prevented a great deal of theft. Theres even a few people out there on ATV's and Dirt bikes patrolling the harder to reach areas. Seeing things like this gives me hope for the future of humanity.

Oh yea... I wanted to mention something abou tthe Exxon spill. Apparently shortly after the spill, a microorganism was genetically engineered that was capable of consuming the raw oil and eliminating the threat. The microorganism could actually be deployed in large areas to quickly neutralize the threat of oil spills. Well, guess what happened? The developing company placed a patent on the genetic sequence of the organism, thereby creating an unsettling precedence in ethics and legal course. The process was fought and in the end it was decided that it was legal to place ownership over the sequencing of genetics. After that, companies began buying up the rights to genetic sequences of all kinds of diseases and organisms. One day you won't be able to cure certain illnesses without paying a corporation for their patent. Un-freakin-believable. I forget which documentary I learned about this from, but it was just another one of those unsettling facts that the media does not cover with as much attention as it deserves. The problem with the abused public, is that many do not even realize they are being violated =(.
 
These fires have been horrible! I live about 40 miles from the nearest fire and even here the smoke is horrible! My allergies have been killing me, the ocean water is polluted and smells like smoke, and Ive had to move all my plants inside to protect them from falling ash, humidity levels in the negatives and record wind speeds.
 
Oh yea... I wanted to mention something abou tthe Exxon spill. Apparently shortly after the spill, a microorganism was genetically engineered that was capable of consuming the raw oil and eliminating the threat. The microorganism could actually be deployed in large areas to quickly neutralize the threat of oil spills. Well, guess what happened?
Never heard about that, but if true it would be years of testing for anyone to responsibly release such a thing into the environment. Rushing things like that are not good, things need to be absolutely certain before you can say you have tested it thoroughly. There is no way that that could have been available for release and use right after discovery. After the testing comes research on how to propagate in sufficient numbers to be of use. All that takes a lot of time. It could not have helped the Exxon spill even if it worked to prefection in preliminary tests. Plus... company rights would not prevent its use... garden plants are patented all the time...

Many sections of the news were emphasizing the problems of eucalyptus groves in the fast spread of the fire in some suburban areas. Why do trees with such an explosive flammability continue to be planted by the public?
 
Before I say this I want to say that I feel for all the people in the way of the fires and the ones that have lost their homes.

I don't want to sound harsh, but nature has a way of taking care of it's own. Natural causes fires to clean out the forest. The plants and animals have adapted to it and come to depend on them for survival. The only animal that haven't learn to adapt to them are humans. Instead of adapting we prevent them. The dead brush builds up and then we have out of control fires like we have now. These fires burns hotter than normal and it actually kills the plants and animals that have adapted to "more natural" fires. We have to learn to control them but still let them burn. We have to find a way to adapt to these fires.

Smokey the Bear is an idiot.
 
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The fires are only the beginning of this mess. When the rains finally do return, California will have mud slides and severe erosion in many places where these fires burned because of the lack of vegetaion.
 
  • #11
Never heard about that, but if true it would be years of testing for anyone to responsibly release such a thing into the environment. Rushing things like that are not good, things need to be absolutely certain before you can say you have tested it thoroughly. There is no way that that could have been available for release and use right after discovery. After the testing comes research on how to propagate in sufficient numbers to be of use. All that takes a lot of time. It could not have helped the Exxon spill even if it worked to prefection in preliminary tests. Plus... company rights would not prevent its use... garden plants are patented all the time...

Many sections of the news were emphasizing the problems of eucalyptus groves in the fast spread of the fire in some suburban areas. Why do trees with such an explosive flammability continue to be planted by the public?

As it turns out, the microorganism is a plasmid-injected bacteria. It was developed in the 1980's (so I guess not after the spill as I initially thought) and WAS used during the exxon spill. Read the following Wikipedia article for information about the Professor who developed the bacteria. There are bacterias that naturally eat oils in nature, but this one was modified thereby creating an odd precedence when a naturally occuring bacteria was slightly modified and then patented. If I can recall in which documentary I first learned about this, I will post here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ananda_Mohan_Chakrabarty
 
  • #12
You are correct PAK. I was being facetious. I really don’t expect, nor do we need any financial assistance from other countries.
And, as usual, Ozzy says a lot with very few words.
As far as Chavez and Castro offering assistance after Katrina…I think I will pass on sending them a “thank you card”.
I see that at least two politicians are somehow managing to blame this on the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Their imagination…and ignorance is boundless. :-))
 
  • #13
While I would agree that smokey the bear is an idiot, I would disagree that man has not adapted to fires. Have you seen how many animals die in fires? A lot. We lost 5 people. I'd say we're doing alright. We can, and do rebuild at an astonishing rate. And no, animals do not depend on fires for survival. Certain plant species do, but not animals (I know this may seem like ignorance because animals depend on plants, and the prolification of new plants by fires indirectly benefits the animals, but I think you know what I mean) . I say we have adapted to fires because we obviously know they will be started, and people that have lost their homes in the 2003 fires, are still living in the same area. If they didn't adapt, they wouldn't still be living in those areas. We DO let natural fires run their course around here at times, but due to the burgeoning population there are obviously areas that cannot be allowed to burn. We can "adapt" by protecting ourselves from natural fires without preventing the fires.
 
  • #14
I heard on the radio the other day that one of the reasons that the fires are so bad is that the California Department of Forestry has been slacking off on the controlled burns that they are suposed to regularly set to control the dead brush that accumulates in time. So these fires have more fuel than normal, hence the reason they are so bad. Just a thought. But this doesn't change the fact of how bad these fires are and the incredible amount of loss they are creating.

re I say this I want to say that I feel for all the people in the way of the fires and the ones that have lost their homes.

I don't want to sound harsh, but nature has a way of taking care of it's own. Natural causes fires to clean out the forest. The plants and animals have adapted to it and come to depend on them for survival. The only animal that haven't learn to adapt to them are humans. Instead of adapting we prevent them. The dead brush builds up and then we have out of control fires like we have now. These fires burns hotter than normal and it actually kills the plants and animals that have adapted to "more natural" fires. We have to learn to control them but still let them burn. We have to find a way to adapt to these fires.


Now, I've had a super-busy week so I haven't been able to dedicate the time that I need to make my comment on this, and while 12:00 may not be the best time to start- oh well.

Let me start by saying that my heart goes out to those affected by the fires.

Let me next say that these fires were in large part predictable. People go "oh it's those Santa Ana winds!" But the Santa Ana winds come every year around halloween.

What we have hear is actually a social/political issue, I've done some research about this in the past because guess what- this same type of thing has happened before. Who'd of thunk it?

The problems are multifaceted, but much of it rests in the fact that the surrounded areas contain systems that are fire-reliant. Areas with fire ecologies will burn, period. For every year that they do not burn, they will burn hotter the next as the fuel piles up. But what can be done!?

I'd direct folks to look at Baja California which has the same type of chaparral areas with fire-based ecologies. Small, contained, yearly burns take place. A patch will burn and there wont be much damage. The next year, say, another patch will burn. The difference is that a) there is less accumulation of fuel, and b) fire is contained by the fact that patches burned previously have already been cleared of fuel by the previous fires.

So the ecological aspects of it are real easy. What throws the whole system off?
Social issues!

Many affluent areas are either a) remote, or b) not up to standards for emergency vehicle access. So while fire fighters could be somewhere else, they may be directed to go up large hills using unfit backroads to get up to a mansion in a middle of the hills. Or otherwise some streets are simply too narrow to accommodate emergency vehicles.

As has happened in the past, when this thing happens there is a large national outcry and a lot of focus is put on areas like Malibu- people want to hear about the movie stars! The destruction is vast, there's no denying. What eventually ends up happening is that government subsidies come in to the very affluent areas. So the poor road infrastructure is rebuilt just the way it was. Homes are rebuilt just the way they were. Everything is set back up just the way it was, waiting for the next time to happen. Sure the affluent had their houses burned down, but the government pretty much just payed for them.

But what of the non-affluent people? Unlike affluent areas, population density for unit area is often quite high. Many apartment complexes are not built to code- emergency doors are blocked on the outside by debris, or chained off, fire escapes are rusted in place, etc. One of the particularly dangerous constructions are those types that you see in a lot of old movies where there is a set of stairs going along the walls of the entire building with the entire centre area open (getting vertigo yet?)

In poor areas fire response is stretched thin, fire codes often go disobeyed without repercussion, and emergency response is often diverted to affluent areas in times of disaster. The number of deaths from fires in poor areas are MUCH higher than those in the affluent areas.

But those who are really empowered (namely the affluent) don't have too much to worry about because while it sucks to lose all of your things- the government is there to pick up the pieces with big cash subsidies.

And since this is getting pretty long I'll end this here. While I cannot say that things will happen the same way this time, I can tell you how they have happened in the past. The figures are all out there- I'll see if I can dig some of mine up again, it's been a good while since I first read about this whole issue.

But what does it all equate to? It's not only predictable, but PREVENTABLE. I'm sure that's of little consolation to those who have lost everything, but I do hope that this time around that there will be a positive change and people will realize that management is key. As previously stated, you can't do controlled burns in all areas- that's why we need planning for when preventative measures aren't enough.

Caveat: I realize that there are other factors in play, etc, etc. I'm not trying to blame anyone, just to give some background regarding the situation.
 
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