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Thread: Non-Compliance

  1. #17
    rattler's Avatar
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    as i said he is in the right...................however do i think this whole thing has to do with him getting more attention than he intended on getting from not saying the pledge.......
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
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    Nepenthes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattler_mt View Post
    as i said he is in the right...................however do i think this whole thing has to do with him getting more attention than he intended on getting from not saying the pledge.......
    Oh I know you said he was in the right... I just wanted to give him the legal ruling for his reference. I did not mean to come off as arguing with you, or anyone else for that matter.

    Oh yea, they also say he can sue if they try to violate this specific right.
    - Daniel

  3. #19
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    "And the republic for whch it stands..." Who said anything about a democrasy?

    Ah, the vex of being a mohawked teen in a small town school, I feel your pain! Don't know how many times the same sort of incidents happened to me. I just did what I felt, don't let them make you go through things you don't agree with. Don't be cowed into being the sheep they want you to be. I always hung up anti-army posters in the halls when the recruiters came, handed out PETA brochures on vegetarian day, etc. If they can use the school as a soap box so can I dammit!

    As for your mom, I'm sorry about that. You can try logic on her "You fought for this country then you fought for my right to believe the way I do." but it will likely fall on deaf ears right now. Maybe in time she'll come to respect your right to have your own beliefs. A lot of parents have this idea that their kids should think and live the same way they did and that's BS.

  4. #20
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro View Post
    It sounds to me that in reality it is less about "being a patriot" and more about "being a non-conformist".
    I agree as well. There are productive ways to making changes in systems. I should know because I am constantly trying to empower college students to make changes when they are upset about a particular process or policy on the college level. I would hardly consider your "non-compliance" as actually making a difference in your "passion."

    You could ask the principal for an opportunity to speak to the veterans and explain to them how your not standing during the pledge of allegiance is not a sign of disrespect towards them and there service but rather as... and state your reasons (in a non-arrogant, non-holier than thou, respectful manner). If anything, it could also prove a learning opportunity for you and you could also inquire to how the veterans feel about such a sign or "protest."

    There are plenty of ways to make progress in educating both sides of any disagreement and the first of which is not trying to prove how educated you and how ignorant your principal is. Debate is the free exchange of ideas and should never be considered an act of non-compliance. Yes, your principal may not be open to listening to you and your opinions but it also sounds as you were guilty of the same thing. I would also recommend that you set up an appointment at a more appropriate time than right after you were reprimanded for the behavior he is trying to "correct."

    Again, I am not trying to presume anything since I obviously wasn't there and only know about you what you've posted here and in the past threads about other responses to authority you've had; however, you'll make a lot more progress with other methods and practice.

    I love it when students and youth get passionate about issues (especially ones that directly involve themselves).
    I'm all for you making a difference, so don't take anything I've said as fundamentalist or siding with the establishment; I'm just tired of how most of the time people just want to complain and make a scene rather than make a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by nepenthes_ak View Post
    (Sorry I copied what i wrote from another forum that doesn't mind swearing"
    Not much of an apology if you don't make an attempt to easily correct the behavior.

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

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  5. #21
    N=R* fs fp ne fl fi fc L Pyro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nepenthes View Post
    This is like the argument that you can support our troops without supporting the war in Iraq. It's just not true. The troops fight the war, and perpetuate problems (although they may not do it by choice, they joined up by choice).
    Says the person with a soldier armed to the nines as his avatar...

    There is a saying that I find more and more true as my days pass:

    "If you are not a rebel at the age of 20 you have no heart. If you have not turned establishment by 30 you have no brain."

    You young blood may not get it now but one day you probably will and like you you will likely laugh.

    There are battles you have to pick in life.

    Look at me. Quite the square yes?



    But what you would never guess from that pic is that I have Strung Out 'Blackhawks Over Los Angeles" blaring on the lab stereo. Just because my hair isn't pink and my pants and shirt fit does not make me less of a punk.

    Be who you like, think what you like, do what you like. Makes no difference to me. Just remember that all actions have reactions. If you choose to poke a stick into a hornets nest that is your choice. But don't come crying to me if you get stung, you made the choice.

    And as far as brainwashing is concerned... I tend to find that the person screaming "brainwashers" loudest has had their brains washed just as thoroughly by another source. I still find that most anarchists hate it when they get what they want because they forget that when there are no rule to keep them in check there are no rules to keep those who would kick their butts in check either.

    But I digress.

    I stand by my statement that it seems more about not conforming than about being "patriotic". He started the ball rolling, it remains to be seen if the laws of Newton allow for the ball to change direction or roll over him.
    'My love was science- specifically biology and, more specifically, when placed in a common jar, which of two organisms would devour the other.'

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  6. #22

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    I thought that saying was supposed to be about communism...
    Z polski y dumny
    Prayer - how to do nothing and still think you're helping.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F5aCUNE4Z8
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  7. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro View Post
    Says the person with a soldier armed to the nines as his avatar...
    Actually that is a Police Officer. I know it is hard to tell, but then again he is dressed in all black and not camo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro View Post
    I still find that most anarchists hate it when they get what they want because they forget that when there are no rule to keep them in check there are no rules to keep those who would kick their butts in check either..
    I can't speak for Nep AK on this one, but I will say that that is not what I am advocating. I believe change is needed, not an abolition of structure. Structure and a democratic society are a good thing, however the core values of a democratic society are being eroded. Some rules are not only good, but vital to the health, success, and function of a stable society. However, we cannot give up too much... this makes me think of a quote by Benjamin Franklin: "He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither." I understand the pledge issue is not directly related to this concept, however we do unwillingly relinquish some of our most basic freedoms in our society. And that is the same society which is represented by our flag.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro View Post
    And as far as brainwashing is concerned... I tend to find that the person screaming "brainwashers" loudest has had their brains washed just as thoroughly by another source.
    I am not, despite what you may think, brainwashed. I am educated. I am informed. I know, intimately, the values which this country was founded upon and I believe in many of them. I however do not think that our government is upholding those values. BTW here is a definition of brainwashing: "any method of controlled systematic indoctrination, esp. one based on repetition or confusion". How many times have you heard the word terrorist? How do you think so many people were enthusiastically ushered into a war, for which almost none have approval for now? Because we are fighting terrorists right? Terrorists. Terror. Terrorism. Oh yeah and a little bit of oil and defense contracts. Terror.
    - Daniel

  8. #24
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro View Post
    Look at me. Quite the square yes?
    Yes! Duh!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro View Post
    I stand by my statement that it seems more about not conforming than about being "patriotic".
    Which is further supported by the title of this thread being "Non-compliance" rather than personal rights infringed or patriotism being questioned.

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

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