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Thread: Non-Compliance

  1. #33
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    No argument here. I've got practically no real life experience. I'm very sheltered BUT what can his principal do to punish him for not standing up and saying the pledge, legally? There is nothing the principal, or anyone, can to to punish him, and they can not make him do this legally.There are no consequences unless you consider the principal just not liking him a consequence. If Cody acts right and doesn't break any rules, there will be no problem. Of course the principal might decide to not turn his head the next time Cody does something, or might decide on a harsher punishment than he normally would have, but that's a gamble Cody has to make. The point is, there is no punishment that can legally be implemented for not standing for the pledge.

    This is your senior year, right? Why didn't they make a big deal out of this for the last three years? Or if you decided to not say the pledge recently, why now? What changed? Doesn't matter, just wondering.

    This is getting fired from the post office because you don't pray before your lunch break.

  2. #34
    rattler's Avatar
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    main question will be.............can Cody afford to go to a different school district? cause i sure in the hell would have no interest staying there if A: i piss of the principle that bad by having his decision reversed or B: keep going there if i sue the school district........................you have never pissed off a teacher to the point they are out to get yah have you? legal or not other ppl can make your life hell........sometimes it just aint worth it.........whatever he does he better hope to hell the school board is on his side otherwise there could really be issues as the principal might very well keep working there even if both A & B happen.........speaking from experiance with school boards, some of them are down right idiots and even if you physically SHOW them the law they will still ignore it............others are quite intelligent, but i find them to be in the minority, most are either stupid or just ignorant of the laws..
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  3. #35
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    I knew of quite a few kids that it has been very important to back in highshcool, but many didn’t care too. For many, they didn’t feel much was important next to chasing the opposite (or same) gender around, which seemed to be everyone’s foremost preoccupation. The pledge seems to be something that grows in importance for older people.

    As for if its legal, no one is disputing that its illegal and wrong, but like rattler said, school boards are not particularly inclined to hear about students rights.
    that makes no logic

  4. #36
    rattler's Avatar
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    you calling me old Finch??

    as i said there are consequences for everything even if your right............if he wants to go after the school and principal, he should go for it, no problem the chances of him NOT winning the case are slim provided he has been 100% truthful with us. however before taking it to that level he has to ask himself, more importantly ask his parents if it is worth the fight.....i would defiantly take it before the school board before anything else......
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  5. #37
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    Of course not o- err friend :P (older by what like 5 years?) im just stating an observation that people who are older than highschool students seem to use the pledge andrespect it more than the younger people. As for everything else you said, no arguments there…
    that makes no logic

  6. #38
    nepenthes_ak's Avatar
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    I pledge allegiance to the flag = I am an american?

    I am American yes, but this is your own interpretation, I DON'T beleive in the society, I do beleive in democracy yes, but not when its run by biased people who TEND to shove religion down peoples throat, True it is better than it used to be, but still he had no problem 2 years ago with letting the Christian "group" come into the lunch room and talk to us about god.

    I have a quote that I've cherished, i don't remember who said it but I got it from some one on here.


    "Patriotism is keeping true to the values that your country was founded on. If this means protecting your country from the government then thats what needs to be done. A patriot must be willing to speak out against its government and do what must be done to preserve the values that their country stands for. The most dangerous thing you can have in a democracy is blind patriotism (ie everyone loves Americans no matter what we do)."

    I dont say the pledge cause i feel the AMERICA we see today, represents our government way to much. The things the government does are, horrid. Its not a dirrect reflection, but the things that they do have a HUGE impact on the way people in America and other countries SEE the FLAG.

    What Am refusing to conform too? Practicing my rights? I love the ideas the USA were founded on, and it makes me literally want to cry when I see what happens every day with the things the government are allowed to do, I try to let my friends know try to get them to understand, but half of them don't care only a couple already know but wont do any thing about it and I don't know what the hell I can do since every one already thinks I'm a "nut job" any ways. No one listens to me. What battles can I fight when I cant do any thing, don't have money to do any thing. They listen to my other "punk" friends maybe they just seem more sane? Im not trying to not conform, I enjoy the way punk clothes fit, feel and its a way i can express my self, i get ridiculed so much. I go to a school that Has 2/5ths of the student body in FFA/AG (me included) The school has a field that they harvest from. The majority of the kids are hicks and wanna be gangseters. NO one understands the way i view things except my friends EVEN then they think I'm crazy at times.

    In comment to SLC punk, It made me considered law school the end went something like "The best way to break the system is to become apart of it" <3 SLC punk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro View Post
    If I may be so bold. Your perspective is skewed. The pledge is not about the government. Nowhere in the pledge does it say: "and I support the machine which makes the nation lumber on."

    Take in the actual words. The Pledge of Allegiance is about supporting your country. It is about being a patriot.

    "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the USA"

    Translation = I am an American

    "And to the republic for which it stands"

    Translation = I believe in the society we live in

    (Note: "Republic" does not mean Republican)

    "One nation"

    Self explanatory

    "under God"

    Left in for the posterity of the founding father's intents. Take it or leave it as your beliefs in a higher power are your own

    "Indivisible"

    Translation = Unified as Americans, regardless of political affiliation

    "With liberty and justice for all"

    Or so the forefathers had hoped. Obviously not absolute but a heck of a lot better than most countries out there.

    So, a person who called themselves a patriot and actually meant it should have no problem saying the pledge because it is about supporting your country (which is what patriotism is) and not about supporting the monkey in a suit who "runs" the country.

    It sounds to me that in reality it is less about "being a patriot" and more about "being a non-conformist".

    If that is the case that is fine indeed, free country and all that. But, consider that when you refuse to conform you then make yourself obvious (which is the point I know.) And when you are looking for attention sometimes the attention you get is not always positive. When that happens you have to live with the situation you have created.

    There are fights that are worth fighting and there are fights that are not. You have to figure out for yourself which they are. And if you fight and lose, then you have to live with the repercussions. That is just part of life.

    Personally, I think there are probably bigger battles out there to fight. But that is just me. Rather than get myself shot down over something so trite I would say just stand up for the Pledge. Stand up but stay silent (after all, no one said anything about saying the Pledge...) If, for some asinine reason they come after you for not actually saying the Pledge then tell them okay and just mouth the words along. Not like they will know the difference unless they are standing right there next to you. BUt that is all just my 2 cents and you can take it or leave it. Make no difference to me.

    In the meantime, if I may, I recommend you go out and watch the movie 'SLC Punk'. I think you'll like it.

  7. #39
    nepenthes_ak's Avatar
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    I never said they were pledging to the government thats my view on how I intemperate the pledge, my Opinion.

    I never said ANY thing about pledging allegiance to bush your putting words in my mouth, but allot of it is BUSH's doing but its not just bush. Every one makes it seem like you become an instant patriot when you say the pledge. But who the hell still says the pledge out side of school, Teachers and student's, the only people who really say the pledge any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottychaos View Post
    When people say the pledge of allegience, what makes you think they are pledging allegiance to the Government instead of to the USA?

    seems to me the opposite would be true...the pledge is to the USA..not the government that happens to be in power this particular 4 year span of time..

    when I was in grade school, we didnt say "I pledge allegiance to Ronald Regan"
    and during the 90's I dont think school kids were saying ""I pledge allegiance to Bill Clinton"..the pledge does not change with administrations..which pretyt much proves right there that the pledge is to the country..not the current administration.

    You say you support the USA and are a patriot..then wouldnt you being showing that support by saying the pledge?

    im just not clear why you think the pledge of allegiance is showing support for George Bush and not the Country...im pretty sure the pledge was written long before he was born! Seems to me by not saying the pledge you are showing disrespect to the county you claim to support.

    thoughts?

    thanks,
    Scot

  8. #40
    nepenthes_ak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattler_mt View Post
    as i said he is in the right...................however do i think this whole thing has to do with him getting more attention than he intended on getting from not saying the pledge.......

    I never said any thing about wanting more attention if any thing I wish people would shut up about the way I like to look. I dont WANT or NEED attention.

    If I did i would wear a hat like this

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