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Thread: Non-Compliance

  1. #41
    nepenthes_ak's Avatar
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    I talked to an attorney, he gave me some pointers, I didn't think about the School Board, and if I get expelled, I'm out of the house. Probably moving to North Carolina.

    I hadn't thought about the school board.

    Today, I talked to the principal, during homeroom (which is now the office until i can get this straitend out)

    I showed him some papers and a court case that said it was a violation of my rights, it was illegal, and he didn't seem to care. Hes the principal of a school where kids who don't farm are the minority. Theirs nothing wrong with that, but they usually don't think for them selfs, "well mom and pa said .... so it must be right". He of course can have the same views some times it seems. Either way, Ill call the school board. Thanks for that, but I'm also calling the Local news stations if I get in trouble for it. Ive also written a letter to the ACLU.

  2. #42
    Two flies one pitcher. Minus the crap eating. obregon562's Avatar
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    why are all us cp'ers anti-gov't and what not?

    coincidence? i think not...it's a conspiracy...CIA...they're watching us!!!

    "It's easy to rip on cops, when you aren't the one needing saving"

    My Growlist

  3. #43
    Nepenthes's Avatar
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    OMG obregon! You forgot your aluminum foil hat! You foolish fool, you've brought them straight to us!

    Speaking of aluminum hats... I love how they (media) conveniently discredited Dennis Kucinich by asking him if he saw a UFO. We live in a Universe that is incomprehensibly huge, and yet people still believe we are alone. Aside from that... he never said he saw aliens, just a U.F.O. Anywho, I definitely digress.
    - Daniel

  4. #44

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    Is Ohio really THAT rural/about farming?
    Z polski y dumny
    Prayer - how to do nothing and still think you're helping.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F5aCUNE4Z8
    ^^^Newest vid

  5. #45
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nepenthes_ak View Post
    I showed him some papers and a court case that said it was a violation of my rights, it was illegal, and he didn't seem to care. Hes the principal of a school where kids who don't farm are the minority. Theirs nothing wrong with that, but they usually don't think for them selfs, "well mom and pa said .... so it must be right". He of course can have the same views some times it seems. Either way, Ill call the school board. Thanks for that, but I'm also calling the Local news stations if I get in trouble for it. Ive also written a letter to the ACLU.
    Again, I have to go back to the methodology about making your point. I've seen it countless times how an important issue can get bogged down by the inclusion of lawyers, outside media sources, and preplanned implementation. Many of these important issues will be better suited to a different approach than trying to build alliances that are seemingly unimportant to the immediate cause. As with this discussion, we always have to think about our tact when approaching people who disagree with us. By automatically putting up our guard and going offensive people more often than not create a hostile environment that will most certainly not benefit their cause. It makes them a media celebrity martyr.

    Just think of how your pricipal might react if you come into his office talking about how you've talked to a lawyer and you've written letters to the ACLU and the media. I would hardly consider that a proper use of your resources in getting your point across. You would be much more productive going into his office and being open and honest about how you feel. Recognize that he is in a difficult position as well since he has people he has to report to as well. Explain yourself in a calm way and non confrontational way. You'll get much, much further in your cause operating under "good faith" and not by feeling that you've been wronged every step of the way (even if you were).

    Lastly, through my experiences working with students and, unfortunately, having to deal with my fair share of lawyers, I can only tell you this: Lawyers fix problems; they don't solve problems. After all was said and done, lawyers never solved any problems. They just mitigated the problem so it wasn't in the spotlight; yet it left the students with no permanent resolution other than the feeling of a temporary win. But truly, say the school district and the ACLU or accompanying lawyers settled and the school allowed you sit and not participate in the pledge of allegiance was the underlying issue really resolved? No, the outcome was forced and there is no lasting impact on any party involved.

    Just my two cents, again. And again, I'm all for damning the man, but I've seen what works and what doesn't work, if you are truly trying to make a difference. I'd rather change the man through a long, time and energy consuming, tedious process than thumb my nose at him every chance I get only hoping to achieve my desired outcome.

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  6. #46
    Nepenthes's Avatar
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    It is not a lawyer's job, or responsibility, to solve problems. Solving problems, as you pointed out, is the job of the individual. It also doesn't matter how his principal might react if he came in talking about lawyers, the ACLU, and the media. It seems like he tried to reason with the principal and after the principal tried to oppress his freedoms, he has had to resort to such measures. Besides, more often than not, the problem can be diverted simply by presenting the lawyers. Once the principal knows he is not just some ignorant kid who will bow down to his "authority", he is going to view him much differently. I would have more respect for someone who fights for his rights, than someone who does what he is told to avoid confrontation. And BTW, fighting the legal route is the long, time and energy consuming, tedious process of which you speak. It is not a simple matter of thumbing your nose and hoping to get what you want. It is using the legal venues and processes to reserve your rights... such processes are central to our democracy.
    - Daniel

  7. #47
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nepenthes View Post
    It is not a lawyer's job, or responsibility, to solve problems. Solving problems, as you pointed out, is the job of the individual.
    I'm glad we agree on this. I said nothing to the contrary. In fact, that is exactly my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nepenthes View Post
    Besides, more often than not, the problem can be diverted simply by presenting the lawyers.
    And again, my point is that do we really want to "divert" the problem? What I'm saying is that diverting the problem has neither long term benefits nor any semblance of resolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nepenthes View Post
    Once the principal knows he is not just some ignorant kid who will bow down to his "authority", he is going to view him much differently.
    I'm sure Cody would agree that his principal already knew this about him prior to this incident (at least from previous stories he has posted).

    Quote Originally Posted by Nepenthes View Post
    I would have more respect for someone who fights for his rights, than someone who does what he is told to avoid confrontation. And BTW, fighting the legal route is the long, time and energy consuming, tedious process of which you speak.
    I have the highest respect for people who stand up for their rights. You should recall that nowhere did I mention that Cody should curl up in a ball and play dead and avoid confrontation. And once again, my point about lawyers goes back to exactly what you said: they divert the problem, not solve the problem. If the problem is not solved, but simply diverted, has any change in behavior occurred? Is that something I should respect? No, it was just a long tedious waste of time that resulted in a temporary illusion of resolution. Cody's children won't reap any benefits of that situation if it was only diverted; and isn't that what we all want? To create a better union for our children and not just temporarily "resolve" our personal dissatisfactions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nepenthes View Post
    It is not a simple matter of thumbing your nose and hoping to get what you want. It is using the legal venues and processes to reserve your rights... such processes are central to our democracy.
    I think a far more central, fundamental, and important "process" of our democracy is the exchange of ideas; I would hope that everyone would realize that exchanging ideas is far more important and practical in achieving change than utilizing our holy legal venues to divert problems. That is what I have been advocating the entire time.

    xvart.

    edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nepenthes View Post
    It also doesn't matter how his principal might react if he came in talking about lawyers, the ACLU, and the media.
    I think it does matter if we are trying to solve problems. I am merely hypothesizing based on my experiences on how such attitudes can get in the way of actual progress. Walking into t a conversation talking about how you got the screw job is not going to have near the effect on your desired outcome as sharing your feelings while recognizing the feelings and opinions of others.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  8. #48
    Nepenthes's Avatar
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    I meant divert the problem of him being kicked out of school. I did not mean to divert the issue. The issue is what he is fighting for... I don't argue that the exchange of ideas, and indeed the voices of dissent, are important to maintaining democracy. But simply trying to talk the principal into seeing his point of view has obviously failed, and the principal has continued to try to deny him his freedom, despite his communication efforts. When communication fails, often resistance is necessitated to bring about change.
    - Daniel

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