I thought that saying was supposed to be about communism...
Never heard that take on it before. The way I have always heard it used is that it is about growing up and being a responsible contributing member of society. When you are young you should stretch your wings and muscles and feel free to buck the system, to an extent. But at some point there comes a time where you have to start contributing to the society in which you live. I am not saying you have to take everything the gov'mnet spoon feeds you but you can not go your whole life being a scav.
Actually that is a Police Officer. I know it is hard to tell, but then again he is dressed in all black and not camo.
Bit of a misconception that soldiers
only wear camo. I have known a number in my days and black is part of the wardrobe.
I understand the pledge issue is not directly related to this concept, however we do unwillingly relinquish some of our most basic freedoms in our society. And that is the same society which is represented by our flag.
And just as often we take for granted the basic freedoms we enjoy living in our society. I always find it entertaining that a person can stand up on a soap box and proclaim to all who listen that they are being oppressed by a system that will not allow them to express themselves as they want. Quite the paradox.
I am not, despite what you may think, brainwashed.
I never said you were. Note that I said: "I tend to find that..."
Never said all cases. And did not say or even specifically mean you.
BTW here is a definition of brainwashing: "any method of controlled systematic indoctrination, esp. one based on repetition or confusion".
A definition that could easily apply to religions yet I hardly hear anyone crying foul that parents are bringing up their children to follow their religion. I was born into a Catholic family and raised Catholic. Was my mother "brainwashing" me??
How many times have you heard the word terrorist?
With respect, this conversation is not about "the war" or terrorists. But since you bring it up and in such a derisive manner I would like to point it out to you that some 4000 people lost their lives and two major building were annihilated in an act of terrorism. While the word "terrorist" may be bandied about in excess it does not change the fact that terrorists
do exist and
are out there and that they dealt us one of the most devastating attacks this country has ever seen on our own soil.
Thanks X, love you too
Which is further supported by the title of this thread being "Non-compliance" rather than personal rights infringed or patriotism being questioned.
Which I was going to bring up myself.
Non Compliance isn't a bad thing
I never said it was. All I said was that when you make it a point to draw attention to yourself by not complying then you can not act surprised when there are reactions to your behavior. Do you really think Rosa Parks thought nothing would happen when she sat in that seat on the bus?? She bloody well knew it would get a response and that it was going to be a big one. She chose to pick that fight and I applaud her actions, that
was a fight worth fighting.
I dont say the pledge cause i feel the AMERICA we see today, represents our government way to much. The things the government does are, horrid. Its not a dirrect reflection, but the things that they do have a HUGE impact on the way people in America and other countries SEE the FLAG.
I find this argument interesting. The Pledge is not something specific to this president/current government. It was in place years before Mr. peanut brain was in office. If "Junior" was not in office would you be happy to say the Pledge?? Are you going to be willing to say the pledge when a different president enters office if they are more to your liking?? It will be the same Pledge then that it is now and was before.
The Pledge is the Pledge. It does not matter who is trying to run the machine. A Ford is still a Ford whether I am driving it (not that I would be caught dead in a Ford) or you are driving it. A 777 is still a 777 regardless of the piolet behind the yoke. America is still America no matter who is in office.
Im not trying to not conform, I enjoy the way punk clothes fit, feel
With respect, I disagree. If it was just about the clothes, there are clothes out there that fit the same way but entail a little less "flash". Plus, if it was just about the clothes then how do you explain the mohawk??
"Normal" clothes and a typical hair cut do not mean you are not punk. Like I said in my other post, I am as punk now as I was when I had hair down to my waist and wore flannel. You may not know it to look at me but that changes nothing.
and its a way i can express my self
It is that, and in that expression you are trying to, and succeeding in, not conforming. And again, I am not saying that there is anything wrong with not conforming. I am just saying that taking the path you have chosen has the consequence of drawing attention to you. You can not be ignorant of that fact, the fact that you say you are ridiculed for it tells me that you are not ignorant of it. You have gotten the attention for it, it just is not the attention you wanted. Now you have to chose what to do with that attention. Constructive/destructive, antagonistic/protagonistic. Those choices are your and only yours to make.
NO one understands the way i view things except my friends EVEN then they think I'm crazy at times.
Join the club. I have given up talking about my view to most everyone (and that includes my parents and my wife) because more often than not they look at me as if I am a few sandwiches short of a picnic. I still believe the things I believe. I just do not voice them unless I am really in the mood to stick to my guns even in the face of ridicule and ostracism.
In comment to SLC punk, It made me considered law school the end went something like "The best way to break the system is to become apart of it"
Ah, you have seen it.
The end quote is poignant but there is more to it than that. Having made that decision, how does he begin to enact it? He loses the clothes and the radical style, drops the "poser" facade and puts on a suit and becomes a "work-a-day Joe". He is still himself though, still punk and proud. He chose his battle.
I never said any thing about wanting more attention if any thing I wish people would shut up about the way I like to look. I dont WANT or NEED attention.
If I did i would wear a hat like this
Again, I have to disagree with you. This is an oxymoronic statement. Like when a woman wears something that exposes her breast and then gets riotously indignant when men stare at her breasts. You do not put your hair up in a mohawk and expect people to
not notice. You do not wear a spiked dog collar and expect people to
not notice. If you did not want to be noticed you would not do/wear things that draw attention to yourself. If I do not want someone to stare at my lily white derriere then I don't walk around naked. Not the other way around (i.e. I do walk around naked and expect people to not look at me.)
If you really want people to shut p about how you look then don't look the way you do. That is the only solution.
Again, I have to go back to the methodology about making your point...
X makes some very good points here. The real issue here is the repercussions of actions taken and how to deal with them. Again, the analogy of a hornets nest comes to mind. If the nest is somewhere there are lots of people and poses a potential hazard then obviously something has to be done. That does not mean you start throwing rocks at the nest to destroy it. The extreme response is very often the wrong one. Be calm, be rational and above all be smart. If you antagonize the principal/school board you are more than likely going to find yourself in the worst position in the end regardless of whether you are right.
And a personal point of view but since we are talking about the value of lawyers... As far as I am concerned, resorting to lawyers is proof of failure. Personal belief but there it is.
Two things that keep coming up that I think need addressing.
1) Legal vs. illegal. Please do note that, right or wrong, laws are interpreted/applied differently if you are a minor or in a certain institution. A great example: While it is fine and dandy and perfectly legal for me to carry a knife (or even a gun) in public you can not do so in school. Technically, yes it was illegal for the schools to tell me I could not but that never stopped them and in the end they won. Though my principal did note that I was civil in my defense, my arguments were lucid and in principle he agreed. I still chose to carry my knife and if I had been caught I would have been expelled. I just was not flagrant about it. You pick your battles.
2) The comments about how many people disagree with the current "leader" of our nation. When we had the last election someone posted a neat link to a map of the US colour coded to match the votes. Interestingly enough, the map showed that the US by and large was purple verging on maroon. Now yes I know that that is just a snapshot of a singe time frame but it makes a point that for the most part the country is pretty evenly divided. If this country really was the dictatorship some people like to imply it is then the map should and would look significantly different. Just me thoughts there though.