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Thread: Ron Paul 2008 Revolution

  1. #137
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capslock View Post
    Outsiders, you've done a great job, and have not brought your religious beliefs into this. Kudos. I wouldn't bother debating someone unless I have respect for them, and I have respect for you. I ask you to consider two things:
    Thanks for the kind words, I respect everyone on here to regardless of our differences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capslock View Post
    1) We don't even have civil unions in most places. In fact, Bush tried to change the Constitution to deny even civil unions (so much for state's rights). This is why people are suspicious of not just outright allowing gay marriage, because they already face blatant legal discrimination. Full equality is what they're after, and they're not even getting close, thanks to anti-gay beliefs in this country.
    I'm sure the gays are suffering many disparities and I wish this country would do something about. Bush probably isn't going to be the guy to get the job done unfortunately. I honestly believe the best solution here is to create civil unions that allow gays to have the EXACT same legal rights as a married heterosexual couple. There's no reason they shouldn't have the same legal rights, except when they want to term it "gay marriage", this is where the problem is. Either way, setting up civil unions with legal rights is a step in the right direction for the gay community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capslock View Post
    2) The definition of marriage is something we make up. We decide what it means and what it says. It wasn't handed down on some magic stone tablets. It's written, decided, and defined by people just like you and me, so it's confusing why you keep referring to it like it's some sacred concept. It's a legal contract with the state that gives benefits based on what's good for families. That applies to all families, doesn't it? Why have two names (or ten) for the same concept?

    Capslock
    We can't makeup the definition of marriage, it's existed LONG before we were even conceived. As for its origins we can agree to disagree. Surely today we both could make up a definition for marriage but that's not the issue at hand here. What is trying to be done today is modify the core definition of marriage here that has always been between one man and one woman. As far back in time you can trace it, it's always been that way, between one man and one woman regardless of faith. What right do we have to change the definition of an institution that has always been between a man and a woman? Just because today we feel like editing it? It just irrational and illogical to change the meaning of a word that has always meant ONE thing. It is also illogical to claim that marriage is the same thing as "gay marriage". If you claim that, then why the division for homosexuals and heterosexuals? The reason is because they are two different things. Just as we are talking about here. The only logical solution is to give gay couples the same legal rights and call it something else. I don't honestly know what gays who commit to each other want to be called. Civil union? The premise that gays won't feel equal because they aren't called a marriage is because that's the truth. The two unions are not the same and that shouldn't matter as long as both get the same rights under the law.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  2. #138
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWurm View Post
    I suppose I assumed you were Catholic, when you linked us to catholic propaganda about gay marriage.
    I didn't realize the site was from a catholic source, just google searched and that was the first thing that popped up that shared some of my issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrWurm View Post
    And if you're not religious, why are you wearing a religion suit?
    I don't understand you question...

    Quote Originally Posted by DrWurm View Post
    I can tell you one of America's ideals: separation of church and state. That's for sure. Keep in mind that whenever a religiously affected law is made, it directly outrages another religion (or non-religion). Keeping your spiritual beliefs out of our government is essential to a more peaceful coexistence.
    You have beliefs and faith just as I and you are preaching the same, you just have beliefs and faith in a different source. Once again what makes your beliefs the right ones for this country, because they favor your lifestyle?
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  3. #139
    Californian in DC DrWurm's Avatar
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    They are not different things in any way that particularly matters.

  4. #140
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattler_mt View Post
    tollerant? removing the referance of "god" from everything government isnt tollerance..............its PC BS.........and nothing more.
    Then why isn't it intolerant to remove the "one man and one woman" from the definition of marriage? This is exactly the same kind of bogus.

    Just like Christmas trees are now being called Holiday Trees...
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  5. #141
    Californian in DC DrWurm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outsiders71 View Post
    because they favor your lifestyle?
    My lifestyle is making sure that everyone around me can put a smile on in the morning. In other words, trying to make the world a Nash Equilibrium. You have to accept that if gays get married, it will in no way affect your life. So just let them get married, or provide a real genuine reason to not let them.

  6. #142
    Californian in DC DrWurm's Avatar
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    And yes, political correctness is BS. I fully agree with that.

    Now I'm going to watch some movies. Might come back for a late night post, might not.
    Last edited by DrWurm; 12-17-2007 at 10:37 PM. Reason: .

  7. #143

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    Who cares if someone wants a holiday tree, or a chanukkah bush, or a kwanzaa whatever they have. People are different, and as long as it doesn't infringe on your rights, let them go! I'm so conservative I make O'reilly look like a lib....but I couldn't care LESS about what gays want to do. I know this sounds like I'm repeating myself, but this is a political NON ISSUE. Outsiders, you and I aren't gay. If people that are gay get married, even your neighbors, it won't effect you at all. I don't want to see 2 gay persons making out on the street, but I don't want to see that from 2 straight persons. PDA = nasty in my book, regardless of gender or whatever.

    This topic got started about politics, and was really interesting for a couple pages. Then, it turned into people trying to push their personal views on people that will never change. You have your way of life, other people have theirs. Now lets shut up, get along, and talk about something that ACTUALLY has to do with public policy, like the awful economy, or us turning into a police state, etc.
    Z polski y dumny
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  8. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outsiders71 View Post
    Then why isn't it intolerant to remove the "one man and one woman" from the definition of marriage? This is exactly the same kind of bogus.
    actually its not the same thing.........your referring to marriage in the catholic religious context.........the rest of us are referring to it in the LEGAL context.........i dont care about what marriage is religiously between two gay ppl.......i do care about what it means legally. legally all marriage is, is a piece of paper stating that you get to make legal decisions for you partner, be it man or woman, when they cant and similar. as far as marriage being between a man and a woman.........thats based on religious beliefs and nothing else, which got written into law. religiously marriage is different things to different ppl, legally there is only one definition. if you feel better calling a gay marriage a civil union go ahead....i dont care. if a gay person wants to call it marriage......i dont care........i just care that they get the legal benefits and responsibilities of telling the state that, hey we are together.
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