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Thread: Ron Paul 2008 Revolution

  1. #185

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    Just to add to Mokele's point...

    I majored in Biology, so I took a LOT of bio classes. Through my entire college career, I had a total of 2 bio profs, and 0 physics profs who believed in god. Think about that. The people that study the earth constantly, study life, etc. Grand total of 2 (and I went to college in Germany, then the 2nd most conservative city in the US. We have more churches than bars here). Of the 2 that believed in god, one put it this way:

    "I believe in god, I mean I'm definitely a christian, but if you think creationism was how the world came to be, or if you think evolution didn't happen, even though there is so much insurmountable evidence and indisputable proof for it, you're either completely ignorant, or your IQ is below room temperature, and you should probably go off yourself"

    For anyone that seriously thinks creationism happened, or that the earth is young, or any of that other fairy tale hocus pocus, I strongly suggest Scientists Confront Creationism. It doesn't take very long to read it in it's entirety. The book is great because it presents creationist arguments, then systematically tears them asunder via logic, rational thought, and indisputable fact.
    Z polski y dumny
    Prayer - how to do nothing and still think you're helping.
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  2. #186
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    It's hard to say what you really feel at times like this. On one day, I agree with the two posters above me, on the other, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. Although they'd freely hurt mine given the chance lmao.

    I believe in the Big Bang. I believe in evolution. I believe I descended from an ape, who descended from a retarded fish-frog (in the words of Ms. Garrison) and I believe the creation of Earth and everything in it took a LONG time. I don't see why God couldn't have created everything the long, slow way that modern science suggests. There's so much evidence for it and the creationists come of to everyone with common sense as sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling "LALALALALALALA"

    Maybe saying "six days" is taking the easy way out for them. Maybe it gives them security. They are too prideful to say "I don't know" or maybe their faith is blind. That's fine. But wanting disclaimers in science books or even having ID taught ALONGSIDE evolution is absurd. And for that matter, the concept of ID is a thinly veiled form of creationism. You could say it's the PC version of creationism. It's like a wolf in dog's clothing.

  3. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattler_mt View Post
    i agree Obama himself wouldnt do much about gun control.....but who he appoints to the supreme court could.....the justices he disapproved of have a solid record of voting for the constitution and not for personal beliefs. we have one case now going before the supreme court on gun control(the Washington DC case) and for the first time in i dont know how long we(gun owners) are pretty dang sure it will go our way. because of Alito and Roberts will side with the constitution. and when that gets through i expect several other cases to make their way infront of the Supreme Court.............so who ever Obama appoints to the supreme court if he gets a chance can really screw things up for gun owners. and im not talking making machine guns legal....im talking the basic right to own a gun to defend yourself

    Wow, we agree on a lot of things, Rattler. Not necessarily how to get there, but I feel like we have the same sensibilities, but the Supreme Court justices are among the main reasons I would not vote for any Republican. I find they don't follow the Constitution at all, in my opinion, and instead usually side with authoritarian interference. Especially on issues like search and seizure, assisted suicide, free speech, medical marijuana, abortion, and most other non-gun related personal freedoms. We had a relatively liberal Supreme Court for a lot of years there, and you still can own all your guns more easily than some carnivorous plants, so I don't think there's much to worry about there. A surprising number of liberals would be very upset if they came for our guns.

    Capslock
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  4. #188
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capslock View Post
    and you still can own all your guns more easily than some carnivorous plants
    Great "analogy."

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  5. #189
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capslock View Post
    Outsiders: Evolution is a fact, the specific mechanics are a scientific theory, as opposed to creationism or ID. It is not taken on faith at all, but backed by mountains of evidence, and observed in the lab. I know you may not accept that due to your religious beliefs, but the scientific community has LONG since moved on from this so-called controversy. I'd like to know if my Presidential candidate is going to put religious pandering above good science, and it's frankly a good barometer issue.
    Evolution is not a fact, it's a scientific theory. Seriously go and ask a scientist if they can prove evolution or any theory for that matter. They will just laugh at you because it's not possible to prove it true.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  6. #190
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mokele View Post
    Wrong. Evolution is actually *both* fact and theory.

    The fact of evolution is that organisms change over time and that species arise from new species. Both of these have been *directly* observed, and cannot be disputed.

    The theory of evolution is our understanding of the mechanism of these changes, and we have enough understanding to be able to actually predict changes, their rate, and how fast they spread through a population.

    You want to know the interesting thing? We have a more thorough understanding of how evolution occurs than of how gravity works.

    Also, there is no 'faith' in science beyond that empirically derived results reflect reality. God is not involved - evolution and science specify nothing about the existence of God or lack thereof.

    Finally, there are a total of zero working biologists who think ID/creationism are anything but laughable. And before you even think of disputing this, I've heard ID mentioned repeatedly at scientific meetings, and every time it was followed by laughter. Real scientists laugh at creationism.

    Mokele
    This is the problem with the non-scientific community, they don't even understand what a scientific theory is. Anything in science that is a theory, requires faith to believe in because it cannot be proven true. Tomorrow a small scientific finding can be found that destroys the core of a theory.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  7. #191

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    Evolution is not a fact, it's a scientific theory. Seriously go and ask a scientist if they can prove evolution or any theory for that matter. They will just laugh at you because it's not possible to prove it true.


    Did you miss Mokele's post? The fact that evolution happens is indisputeable fact. No real scientists would laugh at it, or say that it doesn't exist. What alternate universe do you live in?
    I can prove evolution in the lab in less than 24 hours.

    Theories don't require faith. Theories are theories because scientists like to cover their bases, and if something can't be proven in all cases, but still can in 99% of them, its a theory.
    I cordially invite you to go back to 8th grade biology immediately.
    Z polski y dumny
    Prayer - how to do nothing and still think you're helping.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F5aCUNE4Z8
    ^^^Newest vid

  8. #192
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    I believe he's talking about macroevolution. Most creationists actually believe in microevolution, but not macro.

    That's a very important differentiation you should make in a conversation like this.

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