User Tag List

Informational! Informational!:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Federally Listed Endangered Habitat

  1. #1
    SirKristoff is a poopiehead Ozzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Greenswamp, NC
    Posts
    13,747
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Lightbulb Federally Listed Endangered Habitat

    I was just watching a story on the news about students at a local college (UNCW) protesting the destruction of 15 acres of longleaf pine forest to build new dorms.

    It got me thinking, if there is only 1/2 to 1% of wetland habitat left, why is it not listed as endangered?

    Before a plant or animal becomes extinct, it is listed and protected by the government. Why not do the same for a habitat? Most of the plants and animals that are listed are on the list because of habitat destruction. Without the habitat, those listed plants and animals are doomed anyway. It seems to me that we are treating the symptoms and not the disease.

    Instead of protecting the red cockaded woodpecker which depends on the longleaf pine tree for survival, why not protect the longleaf ecosystem.


    Protecting single animal and not the habitat is the same as taking morphine to stop the pain of a heatattack.



    I have no idea how to go about getting an idea like this passed as law. Does anybody know?

  2. #2
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Zone 8
    Posts
    5,594
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This is too bad; especially since higher education is supposedly the future thinkers, movers, and shakers - at least that's what the original goal of higher education was: to educate members of society to become civic leaders. The design of the building that I'm opening next August on my campus was moved redesigned in order to eliminate tree destruction on the hills surrounding the campus. I think by moving the building we saved maybe 15 trees? Of course this is a desolate hill that we are building on. I'll try and look into that college tomorrow at work and see what the reason for this location is because I seriously can't imagine a college doing that unless absolutely necessary.

    15 acres seems like a lot, too. It must be some sort of complex or probably unnecessary "greening" of the campus...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    I have no idea how to go about getting an idea like this passed as law. Does anybody know?
    I was once told that all you needed to do was to write your congressmen and women... However, I've never seen that actually work... The only problem I see here is that "wetland habitats" are not centralized in one specific state location so it would have to be federal, right? Or are you more worried about this particular patch of wetland habitat?

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  3. #3
    SirKristoff is a poopiehead Ozzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Greenswamp, NC
    Posts
    13,747
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    what I'm saying is to give habitats the same protection that listed animals and plants have. The same as with s.oreophila.


    Or are you more worried about this particular patch of wetland habitat?
    I'm not just talking about this tract of land. I'm not even talking about wetlands. I saying to make laws to protect threatened habitats, be it, longleaf pine forest, southern forests or wetlands. Any habitats that are about to disappear.

  4. #4
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Zone 8
    Posts
    5,594
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm following now. Perhaps take a look at how exactly animals are put on this list and then apply the same logic and oversight to environmental lands. Endangered Lands Act?

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  5. #5
    SirKristoff is a poopiehead Ozzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Greenswamp, NC
    Posts
    13,747
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In case you want to see the report I was talking about, here's a link.

    http://www.wect.com/global/story.asp?s=7837376

    The video of this is at the bottom.

  6. #6
    Grow Pitcher Plants! DroseraBug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Rural North Carolina
    Posts
    744
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I like your thoughts. I agree with your questions.
    If this question was posed to a lead regulatory agent the response may be that wetlands are regulated/protected in addition to endangered species. It would depend on how you define protection. I take it you mean throw your hands up when a wetland or endangered species site is found and say "you can't commence activity here". In my opinion it seems that wetland communities and endangered species are somewhat protected. Wetlands are regulated under the Clean Water Act and Endangered Species under the Endangered Species Act. Development activities commence in or around wetlands or endangered species habitat with regulatory approval (USACE USFWS etc.). To my knowledge regulatory approval comes following evidence that the development activities have exhibited avoidance and minimization of the wetland or endangered species habitat and given that these activities are mitigated for based on government standards.

    However, there are loop holes or impact thresholds especially with wetlands/streams. These I do not particularly agree with. Another thing that is a mess to me is that mitigation or transplanting endangered species in my opinion does not justify the disturbance of a completely intact wetland or endangered species habitat. Hope I'm not being too opinionated here.

    To sum it up, from my observations wetlands are regulated similar to endangered species. Hypothetical Ex. If a survey is done with a group of Biologist/Botanist on ~5000 acres for an Endangered sunflower (Helianthus schweinitzii). Around 10 stems are found. The people building a road had several corridors proposed. If they care, it would be both environmentally and economically the best choice to build the road that would avoid the 10 sunflowers. However, what if all three proposed corridors had small populations located within them? The plants will be moved to another place.

    It also depends on what you consider endangered. I consider carnivorous plants endangered yet the majority are not protected by law.

    You know you were saying you had a thought. Well I had a thought the other night and researched the thought. My question was: Why is there not 'critical habitat protection' on bog ecosystem or other nutrient poor habitats? It seems that development any where near bog communities could have a quick detrimental effect from pollution runoff. This could cause the demise of nutrient poor ex. carnivorous plants and these could be quickly outcompeted by plants like cattails/rush (nutrient rich adapted) species.

    When it comes to mitigation there are standards. Specific ratios are placed on impacting forested wetlands vs. estuarine vs. bog communities etc. etc. However, when a new "mitigation site" is put into place do you think Sarracenia are going to automatically pop up? I don't but I do see the important need for organizations like NASC here.

    An idea for the future would be to convince government entities that organizations such as NASC are to get involved with transplanting/replanting when any CP habitat is impacted period. This way atleast some effort is being made to preserve that community type.

    I believe I read and agreed with something I saw Barry Rice write somewhere else. Something like "you've got to start at the local level and write to those folks". I just asked my wife the same question and that exactly what she said. She's a smart girl. I certainly do'nt believe Bush is going to read a letter from me about CPs but I do have confidence that we who care can make a difference and a way to start would be by writing a letter and educating others.

    Again, I would certainly like to do some hiking and discussing topics like this with you Oz.




    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzy View Post
    It got me thinking, if there is only 1/2 to 1% of wetland habitat left, why is it not listed as endangered?

    Before a plant or animal becomes extinct, it is listed and protected by the government. Why not do the same for a habitat? Most of the plants and animals that are listed are on the list because of habitat destruction. Without the habitat, those listed plants and animals are doomed anyway. It seems to me that we are treating the symptoms and not the disease.

    Instead of protecting the red cockaded woodpecker which depends on the longleaf pine tree for survival, why not protect the longleaf ecosystem.


    Protecting single animal and not the habitat is the same as taking morphine to stop the pain of a heatattack.



    I have no idea how to go about getting an idea like this passed as law. Does anybody know?

  7. #7
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Zone 8
    Posts
    5,594
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Your explanation about pollution runoff in nutrient free environments is a great explanation/example. This is the part of that article that I find most disturbing:

    University officials did say they would consider doing a more thorough environmental assessment of the land after the survival of several species of trees and birds were brought into question.
    I would consider the administration near negligent for not considering such an environmental impact if the reporters are correct in saying that UNCW is "a science and environmentally driven university." However, after reviewing the mission statement of the institution I find no mention of environmentalism so the student body cannot go back and say that this project does not align itself with the mission of the university. Furthermore, when looking at the UNCW core values and goals the only mention of "environment" is in Goal VI. This mention is only in reference to the campus environment, sociologically speaking.

    In no ways am I defending the university's actions or plans by pointing that out; I just know from experience that the quick and easy way to put a stop to something in higher education is by proving that the project, initiative, or plan does not align with the university's mission and core values.

    edit: What I mention wouldn't do anything in the big picture, either; so definite work needs to be done as suggested already.

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •