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Thread: NY Police free to kill again

  1. #25
    Football = Life geckoman's Avatar
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    Do not have time right now to read everyone's replys, but I saw this in the Orlando paper and it made me so upset.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vft guy in SJ View Post
    Am I the only one who noticed that these officers fired over 50 rounds at these guys? The victim was shot like 16 times!! Thats "self defence"?

    31 shots!! Thats intent to kill, not to wound, not disarm, not defence. To KILL plain and simple.

    Imagine that. They had a JUDGE decide the case rather than a jury. And guess what, they got off. hmmmmmm

    Sorry to all of you police friendly people out there, but cops lie in court, and judges will ALWAYS agree with them first regardless of evidence to the contrary.
    Exactly WHY does the number of rounds expended matter to you? You have a misconception. At least, that is obvious to me that you do, no offense. You do NOT shoot to wound or incapacitate. You shoot to stop the threat. If that means killing, so be it. It's better to be judged by 12 at a trial rather than carried by 6 while you're in your coffin at your funeral. That kind of thinking gets you killed when the person you shoot in the kneecaps continues to be a threat and can still shoot you. It's also rather hard to incapacitate somebody in a car without killing them. Usually only their upper chest (heart) and head (brain) are exposed and able to be shot at reliably. Glass is more easily penetrated by pistol rounds than metal door panels or engine compartments. They continued firing until the threat was no longer a threat.

    Should you only be allowed to shoot at a dangerous person a predetermined number of times? It's thinking like that that makes people hesitate and gets them killed. I can link you a graphic video with an example of what I mean. It's of an officer that continues to hesitate and is gunned down by a suspect armed with a rifle. This happened after he had a complaint about excessive force used on another suspect. He was too scared he'd be grilled on using excessive force on what was quite obviously an eminent threat.

    I am far from being a police apologist and I'm not defending the actions of the officers given the circumstances. I'm simply explaining what happens in a real world situation rather than what would happen in the perfect world that only exists as an idea.

  3. #27
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    I can't imagine how, unless you have terrible aim, you would need to fire FIFTY shots. If your aim is that bad, you should not be a cop. This is not Grand Theft Auto. If some random group of people in ordinary clothing came up to you at 4 in the morning, took out guns, and did not identify themselves as cops, what would you do? Would you try to get away? I would. If you could not back out, would you try to run them over? I would. Was this man trying to run them over? No. He was trying to get away, and they killed him because they panicked. This was their fault entirely. If they had Id'd themselves as cops, this would not have happened. It makes me sick. America is becoming worse every god damned day.

    I'll be fair. If I was a cop, and someone was trying to get away but I felt that they were going to try and run me over, I would shoot. HOWEVER, if I was a cop I would have let that person know EXTREMELY clearly that I was an officer. If the cops were doing their job properly, this would not have happened. Like Al said, this was an abortion of justice. The cops aren't terrible monsters. They just didn't do their job. They should not be on the force any longer. Do I believe they should be in JAIL? I actually don't know because this instance involved a vehicle and that really changes things.

    The woman who told the cop to stop working for the "masters" is retarded. We need cops. There are good cops and bad cops. You know she won't be saying that when something bad happens to her.

  4. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustLikeAPill View Post
    I can't imagine how, unless you have terrible aim, you would need to fire FIFTY shots. If your aim is that bad, you should not be a cop. This is not Grand Theft Auto. If some random group of people in ordinary clothing came up to you at 4 in the morning, took out guns, and did not identify themselves as cops, what would you do? Would you try to get away? I would. If you could not back out, would you try to run them over? I would. Was this man trying to run them over? No. He was trying to get away, and they killed him because they panicked. This was their fault entirely. If they had Id'd themselves as cops, this would not have happened. It makes me sick. America is becoming worse every god damned day.

    I'll be fair. If I was a cop, and someone was trying to get away but I felt that they were going to try and run me over, I would shoot. HOWEVER, if I was a cop I would have let that person know EXTREMELY clearly that I was an officer. If the cops were doing their job properly, this would not have happened. Like Al said, this was an abortion of justice. The cops aren't terrible monsters. They just didn't do their job. They should not be on the force any longer. Do I believe they should be in JAIL? I actually don't know because this instance involved a vehicle and that really changes things.

    The woman who told the cop to stop working for the "masters" is retarded. We need cops. There are good cops and bad cops. You know she won't be saying that when something bad happens to her.
    A total of 50 bullets were fired by five NYPD officers. Average that out and it's 10 rounds each. That's not a lot in the heat of the moment when you're pulling the trigger. It's not like 1 cop reloaded 2-3 times, which is how you make it out to sound. They weren't conferring with each other as they were shooting to see how many rounds each one had fired and trying to guess whether it was "enough."

    As for the not identifying part, that is what the deceased man's friend assert. There is the possibility that they are telling the truth, are outright lying, or are even mistaken and simply did not register/hear the officers do so. Personally, I have a hard time believing that FIVE officers approached the vehicle without a single one of them announcing that they were the police. Do you really sincerely believe that the police conspired to open fire on the car for no reason and without identifying themselves?

    The reality is it's an impossible situation. If somebody tried to run me over, hell yes I'd shoot them. If I had 5 people draw their firearms and didn't identify themselves to me while I'm in my car, I'd keep my head down and try and get the hell out of there. I'd probably try and avoid hitting one because that could hurt your chances of escape and won't make much difference when there are 5 people. If they did identify themselves, I'd keep my own firearm at the low and ready while I call 911 to verify. If they open fire without provocation you can probably assume they aren't police and you need to get the hell out of there.

  5. #29
    OMG h8 pings MrFlyTrap2's Avatar
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    Some facts in regards to the amount of bullets fired:

    Source MSNBC http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24317738/

    With tires screeching, glass breaking and bullets flying, the officers said they believed they were the ones under fire. Oliver responded by emptying his semiautomatic pistol, reloading, and emptying it again. Isnora fired 11 rounds, and Cooper four. Two other officers who fired weren't charged.

    A total of 50 bullets were fired by five NYPD officers. Average that out and it's 10 rounds each. That's not a lot in the heat of the moment when you're pulling the trigger. It's not like 1 cop reloaded 2-3 times, which is how you make it out to sound.
    But that is what happened...

    As for the not identifying part, that is what the deceased man's friend assert.
    Again according to the article:
    Isnora claimed that after he warned the men to halt, Bell pulled away in his car, bumped him and rammed an unmarked police van that converged on the scene. The detective also said Guzman made a sudden move as if he were reaching for a gun.

    -bumped, undercover officer, plain clothes- -unmarked van- Trying to get away, not trying to kill an officer.
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  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFlyTrap2 View Post
    Some facts in regards to the amount of bullets fired:

    Source MSNBC http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24317738/

    With tires screeching, glass breaking and bullets flying, the officers said they believed they were the ones under fire. Oliver responded by emptying his semiautomatic pistol, reloading, and emptying it again. Isnora fired 11 rounds, and Cooper four. Two other officers who fired weren't charged.



    But that is what happened...



    Again according to the article:
    Isnora claimed that after he warned the men to halt, Bell pulled away in his car, bumped him and rammed an unmarked police van that converged on the scene. The detective also said Guzman made a sudden move as if he were reaching for a gun.

    -bumped, undercover officer, plain clothes- -unmarked van- Trying to get away, not trying to kill an officer.
    That information wasn't in the original article.

  7. #31
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    WE have a similar situation here... A young man (just turned 21) had a warrant for his arrest. When they found him (the officers) he RAN. Stupid thing to do. Anyway, he ran and they cornered him. Here's the debate issue: Police said he had a gun and shot the officer with the warrant then ran. Happily he (officer) had a vest on. When cornered he tried to shoot other officers and was shot and killed in the process. Now I am NOT being racist but it is an issue in this case. The guy who was shot was black and the whole black community is upset because they are saying he was unarmed. If you see his record I would doubt he was unarmed. The officers claim that he was armed and they did what they had to do. Personally I think they were in the right. Now the NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People) is getting involved. This was a month ago. I dont know anything else about it.

    EDIT: I also agree with scotty
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    Seeing the similarity to oneself, one should not use violence or have it used.
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  8. #32
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    Swords, I live down here. It was big news.

    Scotty is right this time. Belligerent, but right nevertheless.

    This guy was bad news. Being a cop in NYC means you have to make split second decisions to keep yourself alive. Sometimes they turn out to be the wrong choice, but cops are still human, and many of those they chase don't qualify as that any more.

    And cops DON'T get away scott free. Amadou Diallo (sp?) anyone?
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