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California supreme court overturns gay marriage ban

  • Thread starter Clint
  • Start date
  • #81
You know, you can change your settings so that a seven page topic becomes a two page topic. It's great!

LOL, I already edited it to 8 pages because it grew a page while I was writing...and no, I didn't know I could change those settings ??? .
thanks for the info!!!
 
  • #82
The discussion is good. The insults are not. I think most of it has been taken care of.

I'm all for a good lively debate but it CAN be done without arrogant, condescending remarks.

Carry on!
 
  • #83
Yes Darwin did have some racist undertones but that was 150+ years ago and no respectable scientist would take everything that Darwin published at face value, unless of course they were studying barnacles in which case he was the expert on them for quite a while.

As for separate but equal there is no such thing. By the nature of making something separate you admit it is not equal and that is wrong. It wasn't equal for races why should it be accepted for sexual orientation? If its ok for homosexuals lets bring it back for the races.
 
  • #84
Ok. This is a little off-topic but I am just shocked at how much writing people can put into one post! I mean sometimes I think to myself "Okay. That was a good amount." Then I look at the final piece and see it's only like 2 lines. :( :-))Much like this post here.
 
  • #85
Hey, gays will finally be seen as humans - we'll see how long it lasts...

BTW I didn't read any of this topic, I don't wanna know who's got crazy prejudices.
 
  • #86
Just to throw in, His Holiness the Dalai Lama said that some traditions are worth keeping while others are worth throwing away. He never stated which ones but like so many people on here I agree that the gay marriage should no longer be a ban. I noticed ,too, that so many religious leaders (like the Pope) HATE changing tradition. They think the way it is now works for everybody. And religion is in our politics (hence the gay marriage ban) and should not be. Give it time and when a new generation of folks are in Congress and the White Hose things will change.

Our inability to stand someone results from our lack of cultivation.
Having a wider heart and mind is more important than having a larger house.
Happiness does not come from having much, but from being attached to little.
Cheng Yen
 
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  • #87
I didn’t read much of this topic, but… It’s a good day to live in California. Progress is great and separation of religion and government is imperative, IMO. I don’t buy the comparison of homosexuality to bestiality and pedophilia in terms of marriage either… it’s a bunch of rotten bologna.

Hopefully other states will soon follow.
 
  • #88
The same with pot. One glass of wine can intoxicate someone on an empty stomach. Maybe not you or I but a small woman could be. How about a Child?

God knows your motives and your heart. If you are purposefully doing something to intoxicate yourself, then gee golly you might actually become intoxicated. Having a glass of wine is not a sin.
 
  • #89
I believe that it was the grace of god that I met my future wife. I met her when my wife and I decided to swap partners one weekend. They came down from MN to meet us and swap spouses for the weekend. I have not looked back ever since. I have met the woman of my dreams and thank God every day for the opportunity to meet such a great woman.

I don't know if you're trying to bait me or what not, but I'm not going to fall into this. I'd suggest if you'd want stuff like this not commented on to not stick them on a public forum.

People are born gay and can be swayed to the heterosexual side by the ever present reticule of people. There is such a bad stigma against being gay and if they buy into that they can put up the front of not being gay so they are not harassed by people like you.

Oh so every homosexual/bi-sexual, who changed orientation, must have done it because of reticule? They couldn't actually have changed with the help of Christ? Time to dump that pocket sized God you believe in because God can do anything. Also please don't pretend to know me because you have not a clue. I don't harass or reticule gays.

My GF just brought up a good point. What about the part of the bible that teaches tolerance??

What about tolerance? I think you and your GF are a little out of touch in this thread, and are making one too many assumptions.
 
  • #90
Intoxication depends on intent? That must mean that someone who drinks punch at the frat party will only become intoxicated if she knows it's spiked. A lot of people might disagree.
 
  • #91
"Prove to me historically that marriage is a government created institution/tradition."

Just stating fact, it cannot be denied that religion is in itself it's own form of government. Lots of history behind it no matter what you believe.

Other than that, perhaps now the rest of the states follow suit. Go Scotty!
 
  • #92
God knows your motives and your heart. If you are purposefully doing something to intoxicate yourself, then gee golly you might actually become intoxicated. Having a glass of wine is not a sin.

depends on your religion mate... it is mine...
 
  • #93
In the whole argument about gay marriage - the only topic is "state-sanctioned" marriage, which is a legal contract unambiguously created by our government. Churches have always been able to use their own definition. What's at stake is the government-sanctioned version.

Capslock
 
  • #94
In the whole argument about gay marriage - the only topic is "state-sanctioned" marriage, which is a legal contract unambiguously created by our government. Churches have always been able to use their own definition.

lol. That's exactly what I've been trying to say every time this topic (or any slightly relevant topic) comes up. You said it much more concisely and effectively than I ever did.

xvart.
 
  • #95
I don't know if you're trying to bait me or what not, but I'm not going to fall into this. I'd suggest if you'd want stuff like this not commented on to not stick them on a public forum.

I put it there to be commented on and prove a point. I am not afraid of what i have done in the past nor will I ever be. I take responsibility for my actions. I also believe it happened for a reason and we were put there at that exact time to meet each other. I believe a higher power had a hand in that meeting. It was not just on chance I have met the woman of my dreams. I do not believe it is by chance that I have met someone I feel so comfortable around and someone I feel so in touch with. I do not believe it was by chance that the love we share for each other is so strong and growing stronger by the day. I do not believe it is chance that she has lead me to believe that God does exist and he can make you the happiest person alive. Even if the road to getting there seems to be a bad one. I am not ashamed of what I have done. I feel it was a necessity to get to this stage in my life and it was planned out for me in advance to do what I have done in my life to get to where I am today. God works in mysterious ways.



Oh so every homosexual/bi-sexual, who changed orientation, must have done it because of reticule? They couldn't actually have changed with the help of Christ? Time to dump that pocket sized God you believe in because God can do anything. Also please don't pretend to know me because you have not a clue. I don't harass or reticule gays.

No I do not believe God would change people. Not that he can't, but he wouldn't. He can help you if you ask. He gave man free will to make his own choices, but your sexual preference is not a choice. It can be masked or put into the closet of your mind, but you never change orientation, unless you were bisexual to begin with and liked both men and women. Then you can give the impression of converting, but if you are truly gay and are not attracted to the opposite sex at all then, no I do not think you can really change, but instead deny yourself your true feelings and make yourself miserable trying to live a lie.

You seem to be harassing them here in this thread. Wanting to deny someone the right to be recognized as a family in insurance eyes. Or have the other protections awarded to married couples is shameful.

I never claimed to know you and expressing my views that counter yours. I don't agree with you and explaining why. I do not believe it is right to segregate one group of people based on sexual orientation, yet say it is not alright to segregate because or race. They are both segregation yet one is viewed as ok and one not.



What about tolerance? I think you and your GF are a little out of touch in this thread, and are making one too many assumptions.
Are we? I don't think to. I believe when minds are closed of to other view points then it is not showing tolerance.


God knows your motives and your heart. If you are purposefully doing something to intoxicate yourself, then gee golly you might actually become intoxicated. Having a glass of wine is not a sin.

He also knows when your sleeping and knows when your awake. :-)) So your saying when you get buzzed on a glass of wine but were not intending to get intoxicated its ok? BTW if you believe Jesus turned water into wine just enough for people to have one glass with dinner your mistaken. Wasn't the wine plentiful? It stands to reason there were a few drunken people there then. Oh BTW smoking marijuana is not a sin either. :nana: I forget the verse number, but I know the verse by heart. "I have given you all the seed baring plants and herbs to use."


Ohhhhhh shoot. Gluttony is a sin too yet the church is not jumping all over fat peoples backs? If they did it might actually save some lives in the process. :-))
 
  • #96
No I do not believe God would change people. Not that he can't, but he wouldn't. He can help you if you ask. He gave man free will to make his own choices, but your sexual preference is not a choice. It can be masked or put into the closet of your mind, but you never change orientation, unless you were bisexual to begin with and liked both men and women. Then you can give the impression of converting, but if you are truly gay and are not attracted to the opposite sex at all then, no I do not think you can really change, but instead deny yourself your true feelings and make yourself miserable trying to live a lie.

I'm just relaying stories I've personally heard. It's not a rarity and you can find them online as well.

You seem to be harassing them here in this thread. Wanting to deny someone the right to be recognized as a family in insurance eyes. Or have the other protections awarded to married couples is shameful.

Where did I say I wanted to deny someone the right to be recognized as a family or deny them the right of the same protections under the law? Nowhere.

I never claimed to know you and expressing my views that counter yours. I don't agree with you and explaining why. I do not believe it is right to segregate one group of people based on sexual orientation, yet say it is not alright to segregate because or race. They are both segregation yet one is viewed as ok and one not.

I think your logic is fallacy. There is no equivalence between the segregation of public schools and whether or not a gay couple is called a marriage or union. I also disagree with you that the definition of the institution of marriage should be changed.

Please do explain how gay couples given the term civil union, with the same EXACT word for word legal rights as the legal definition of marriage would be disadvantaged.

With your logic mens and womens bathrooms shouldn't be segregated. We should have only one bathroom for both sexes. Separate is not equal.

Are we? I don't think to. I believe when minds are closed of to other view points then it is not showing tolerance.

Once again you don't know me, so quit pretending. Just because I believe it is wrong for the definition of marriage to be changed does not mean I hate gays. There is no need to change the definition. Heterosexual relationships are different than homosexual relationships, and that is just plain fact. Just like women are different than men. We don't call women men, or men women, or both ONE name. They are both uniquely different and equal. So why is it so gosh darn important to REDEFINE the term marriage if honestly the two institutions here are different? It's not about rights, it's about social acceptability.


He also knows when your sleeping and knows when your awake. :-)) So your saying when you get buzzed on a glass of wine but were not intending to get intoxicated its ok? BTW if you believe Jesus turned water into wine just enough for people to have one glass with dinner your mistaken. Wasn't the wine plentiful? It stands to reason there were a few drunken people there then. Oh BTW smoking marijuana is not a sin either. :nana: I forget the verse number, but I know the verse by heart. "I have given you all the seed baring plants and herbs to use."

So I assume that you've never heard of drinking in moderation? Or the health benefits that occur from doing so? People can abuse lots of things, that doesn't mean the only option is to abuse it. I would be careful how you are interpreting scripture because God is very clear about any kind of drunkenness (not only from alcohol) and it seems like you've either misread or added in extra tid bits to appease yourself. Maybe you should talk to your church's pastor about verses in question.
 
  • #97
Yeah dude, and she's totally cute to! Like Tara reid but not an alcoholic.

We DO have coed bathrooms. I was thinking about your argument about gender-segregated bathrooms, and I realized that it's not being enforced and either gender. Males aren't forcing it on females and visca versa, and if you really have a moral problem with it you can go to a coed bathroom. It's really mutual, optional segregation.

Besides the obvious physical differences, heterosexual and homosexual relationships are the same. Really, the same love you feel is what we feel, even if the right says those feelings are "impure". Love is love, I say, and I don't believe God has any problems with love, because he IS love. I don't believe God has a problem with love, whether it be between two men, two women, or a man and a woman. Whenever you say (not you in particular) "I have a problem with gay marriage" or "I have a problem with gays adopting" or "I don't believe two men/women should be together", what you're REALLY saying is "I have a problem with love".

Reminds me of the lyrics to a song from Hedwig and the Angry Inch:

http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/hedwigandtheangryinch/originoflove.htm
 
  • #98
We DO have coed bathrooms. I was thinking about your argument about gender-segregated bathrooms, and I realized that it's not being enforced and either gender. Males aren't forcing it on females and visca versa, and if you really have a moral problem with it you can go to a coed bathroom. It's really mutual, optional segregation.

Umm... it's not optional segregation man. If I walked into a women's restroom at a public establishment, I would be in HUGE trouble. Unless of course there were no women in the bathroom during the times I was in there.

I suppose you think men and women's locker rooms are optional as well?

What about the womens and mens sections at clothing stores. They segregate the clothing, separate is not equal...

Besides the obvious physical differences, heterosexual and homosexual relationships are the same. Really, the same love you feel is what we feel, even if the right says those feelings are "impure". Love is love, I say. I don't believe God has a problem with love, whether it be between two men, two women, or a man and a woman.

So you believe that there is no difference besides anatomical between a man and a woman? I disagree. I believe there is a difference between man and woman, that they are unique differences not in a bad or good way but it is much more than anatomical. That is why heterosexual relationships are different than homosexual relationships.
 
  • #99
It's optional because you have the choice of going to a coed bathroom instead of a men's only bathroom.

And there are also coed locker rooms. I wouldn't call men's and women's sections segregated, I'd call that organizing. If the articles of clothing developed consciousness and felt they were segregated, I'd fight for the whites to be mixed with the colors (no laughing, these are clothes!) and the blouses to me mixed with the suits. It just seems like you're using really weak arguments... c'mon.

Maybe you mean heterosexual couples don't know what each other want as well as gay couples since they think differently :p Maybe that's why the gay community is portrayed as so much happier :p Seriously, Sure, I believe there are some mental differences, but... so what? What does that have to do with love? The love you experience is the same as the love we experience. No better or worse. And saying there are unique difference is pretty general. There are unique differences between one person and the next, and some men think in a manner similar to women (statistically) and visca versa.

When people think of gay relationships, they almost always think about the sex and not the love. We aren't a bunch off raving nymphomaniacs.
 
  • #100
It's optional because you have the choice of going to a coed bathroom instead of a men's only bathroom.

There are no coed bathrooms here. I challenge you to enter a public women's restroom the next time you're out.

Maybe you mean heterosexual couples don't know what each other want as well as gay couples since they think differently :p Maybe that's why the gay community is portrayed as so much happier :p Seriously, Sure, I believe there are some mental differences, but... so what? What does that have to do with love? The love you experience is the same as the love we experience. No better or worse.

When people think of gay relationships, they almost always think about the sex and not the love. We aren't a bunch off raving nymphomaniacs.

The difference matters because they are different things. Why is it important to be called gay or homosexual? Why don't we just say you're straight or heterosexual? Why denote a difference there but then in terms of marriage you want the same name?

Do you disagree with having two different terms for sexual orientation? If you don't disagree with the two terms, homosexual and heterosexual, and accept that they are different orientations (not in negative terms), then it would only make logical sense to have two terms for the two different unions.
 
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