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Thread: the geocentric bible

  1. #17
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    I don't believe the OT is a bunch of lies. I believe it's a bunch of stories which may be based mostly (loosely or not) on history. It's not a text book and I take very very very little of it literally.

    I never found catholicism very appealing. So much needless ritual (IMO). The Church became a miniature government, with hierarchies, and I don't like that at all. So very strict, too. Of course I've never met a catholic that's strict... of course I only know three and one is my age. Of course I don't care what they do. At least they don't come knocking on my door like some other religions. One time I was at a public swimming area at a lake and some dude wanted to baptize me. For a sixth-grader, that was pretty scary. Came up to me in front of everyone. I don't even know why he picked me. Anyway, the point to my rambling is that prosetylzing is so uncomfortable. I think more people should tone down the evangelicalism. Wait until someone else brings it up before you talk about it.... nothing clears a room like "I'd like to talk to you about Jesus!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustLikeAPill View Post
    I don't believe the OT is a bunch of lies. I believe it's a bunch of stories which may be based (loosely or not) on history. It's not a text book.
    It is more than a bunch of stories. It shows the standards and character of God, the attempts and failures of people chosen by God, and the foreshadowing and setup of Jesus.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustLikeAPill View Post
    I never found catholicism very appealing. So much needless ritual (IMO). The Church became a miniature government, with hierarchies, and I don't like that at all. So very strict, too. Of course I've never met a catholic that's strict... of course I only know three and one is my age. Of course I don't care what they do. At least they don't come knocking on my door like some other religions. One time I was at a public swimming area at a lake and some dude wanted to baptize me. For a sixth-grader, that was pretty scary. Came up to me in front of everyone. I don't even know why he picked me. Anyway, the point to my rambling is that prosetylzing is so uncomfortable. I think more people should tone down the evangelicalism. Wait until someone else brings it up before you talk about it.... nothing clears a room like "I'd like to talk to you about Jesus!"
    I agree with a lot of the sentiments you listed, however just the same other people get something out of it. I've experienced a lot of aggressive evangelists as well both before I knew Christ and after. They turn me off as a Christian and I think they do a disservice, even though I know they're trying to do something good. It's just not the way Jesus was. He met people, loved people, got to know people, and hung out with people. He wasn't an annoying used car salesman who was trying to sell you a car. He invested in people and loved them genuinely and that's the model I believe every Christian should try to follow. I try my best not to come off as that used car salesmen on here on these forums but at the same time it would be wrong for me to read something false and not respond to it. Communicating over the internet also adds a lack of personal meaning.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

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    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    Well, it may do that but I still believe it's still a bunch of stories. And don't get me wrong, it's a GREAT read if you treat it like a book instead of homework, and I'm sure that it can teach you great lessons you can apply to your personal life if you view it through the right prism. I really do believe religion is like a drug. It doesn't do harm nor good in and of it's self, but it's the way the individual utilizes it, and external influences, that affect the outcome.

    But, I really take a lot of it with a grain of salt. The God portrayed in the OT was really different from the God portrayed in the NT. I mean... I'd still be an atheist if I believed that God was the way he was portrayed in the OT. That was why I was an atheist, I guess. Maybe I never stopped believing but had disdain instead, who knows? Anyway, the point is that I guess that's why I have such different views than you.

    Or maybe I believe in such a different "personality" (I say "personality" because "form" would imply that I believe in a different God than you do, which isn't true (although you have made implied it in the past in one of our quarrels". Don't ask me to look it up... we've had long and numerous "quarrels" ) because on some level I feel that what I believe is better than believing in nothing. Maybe my lax view of the concept of "sin" has been manifested to conform to my own lifestyle. Or, of course all of this speculation could be BS because if I knew my own subconscious then it wouldn't be my subconscious, now would it? I think the REAL answer is that my Hydroxyzine has made my loosen up and ideas are flowing out of my head like so much wine.

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    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustLikeAPill View Post
    Well, it may do that but I still believe it's still a bunch of stories. And don't get me wrong, it's a GREAT read if you treat it like a book instead of homework, and I'm sure that it can teach you great lessons you can apply to your personal life if you view it through the right prism. I really do believe religion is like a drug. It doesn't do harm nor good in and of it's self, but it's the way the individual utilizes it, and external influences, that affect the outcome.

    But, I really take a lot of it with a grain of salt. The God portrayed in the OT was really different from the God portrayed in the NT. I mean... I'd still be an atheist if I believed that God was the way he was portrayed in the OT. That was why I was an atheist, I guess. Maybe I never stopped believing but had disdain instead, who knows? Anyway, the point is that I guess that's why I have such different views than you.

    Or maybe I believe in such a different "personality" (I say "personality" because "form" would imply that I believe in a different God than you do, which isn't true (although you have made implied it in the past in one of our quarrels". Don't ask me to look it up... we've had long and numerous "quarrels" ) because on some level I feel that what I believe is better than believing in nothing. Maybe my lax view of the concept of "sin" has been manifested to conform to my own lifestyle. Or, of course all of this speculation could be BS because if I knew my own subconscious then it wouldn't be my subconscious, now would it? I think the REAL answer is that my Hydroxyzine has made my loosen up and ideas are flowing out of my head like so much wine.
    I think you are just confused about the contextual, cultural and background information involved in the OT. The God in the OT is the same God of the NT and today. Jesus Christ was the human incarnation of the God of the OT. If the God of the OT was truly that unloving, wicked and horrid as for some reason you believe, then why are Jews so passionate for God? The fact is mankind sinned against God, and instead of wiping us out he gave us grace. He pursued us and setup covenants with us. There were rules in these agreements with God and breaking these rules had consequences. He then ultimately, after establishing that nobody can meet the measure of the OT law, sent his son to live by the rules without failure and then to die for all of us, once and for all.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

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    I know he's the same God, but he was portrayed two totally different ways. If I believed that was God, I'd still be an atheist. I don't believe he is/was anything like that, but for a time I may have. I can't say if subconsciously I thought that and never stopped believing in a higher, because if I knew my subconscious then it wouldn't be subconscious I guess I had to forget about the God thought of growing up (big old man on a throne that demands you "Be good" or else) and discover him for myself.

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    http://youtube.com/watch?v=G5JtxrR6msg
    Pat Condell: "God the Psycho"

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=LEt20PgKmcU
    "Unholy Scripture"
    Z polski y dumny
    Prayer - how to do nothing and still think you're helping.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F5aCUNE4Z8
    ^^^Newest vid

  7. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustLikeAPill View Post
    I know he's the same God, but he was portrayed two totally different ways. If I believed that was God, I'd still be an atheist. I don't believe he is/was anything like that, but for a time I may have. I can't say if subconsciously I thought that and never stopped believing in a higher, because if I knew my subconscious then it wouldn't be subconscious I guess I had to forget about the God thought of growing up (big old man on a throne that demands you "Be good" or else) and discover him for myself.
    Please don't take this the wrong way because it's not meant to be an insult (just want to make it extra clear). I recommend everyone to pickup the Bible and read it but at the same time it is important to have a good teacher to help teach the Bible as well. There are many areas of the Bible that aren't clear and are plain confusing unless you have context or background information. There's a reason why Pastors/Priest have to do years of studying in college in Seminary. I have learned so many things that I wouldn't have originally understood if I read it by myself. The two portrayals of God are common amongst those who aren't well versed, and I'm not saying I'm some Bible guru know it all.

    I'm not sure what exactly you wrestle with in the OT, but try google searching. I'm sure you're question has come up several times and has been answered. It might help you make the connection that they are one in the same.

    Here's some links that might help you:
    http://www.jesussite.com/blog/2007/1...testament-god/

    http://mb-soft.com/public/godotnt.html

    http://www.comereason.org/bibl_cntr/con090.asp

    http://www.new-life.net/faq024.htm
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  8. #24
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    I don't take it as an offense. I think you're mis-reading what I said, though. All of the above is past tense. It's not an issue with me at all. Over and done with.

    The God I thought existed didn't, and the God I didn't know about did. Make sense? But now I'm sounding like Donald Rumsfeld. "As we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns -- the ones we don't know we don't know."

    Reading the Bible or going to church and all of that really is not my thing at all. If I don't feel comfortable reading it, I won't. I'm going to worship God the way works best for me, and for me a secular lifestyle is really right for me. One of the things that really turns me off about religion is that they try to change you, and I'm not into that. I really like to keep it to myself unless someone else talks about it, then I always put try to put what I say into context. I'm really PC about it (using lots of "IMO's" and "For me's".).

    Some people would say I'm not a "real" Christian/Christ follower.... and I don't think there is such a thing as a "real" Christian/Christ follower. I love God now, and that's what matters to me. And to be honest even speaking this way makes me uncomfortable... awkward. It's just not me to say things like that. It's really an internal, personal thing for me.


    .....awwwkwwwaaaaaard.

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