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Thread: near as i can figure he must be a freaking idiot

  1. #65
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outsiders71 View Post
    Now lets try to think outside of the box a little here. Tell me how it is beneficial for people who aren't able to support themselves, let alone a baby, to engage in sexual activities that provide the risk of having said baby. Please do also factor in the major possibility of the father not supporting the baby or the mother and the effects it will have on that mother's life. Also take in effect the kind of upbringing that child will have.
    Because teenagers are going to have sex. Teaching them responsible sex is a much better way to curb STDs, teen pregnancy, etc. Of course teens shouldn't be having sex! No one is arguing otherwise. But telling people not to do something, and that's then end of the conversation, is not going to work. It will work for some, but not for everyone, and I would say not for the majority, but I have no evidence to back that up.

    Give me two traditional communities. One teaches responsible sex and one teaches abstinence only. I guarantee that the sexual activity rates among teenagers will most likely be statistically significantly equal while the unwanted teen pregnancy and STD rates will be higher in the abstinence only community.

    edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Capslock View Post
    By the way, all the data shows that "abstinence-only" education is a total failure. It increases STD rates and teen pregnancy by maintaining a state of ignorance among kids. It's just a well-intentioned, but very bad idea. Kids need information, not unrealistic scolding. The drive to have sex is universal, and we need to accept that some people under 18 are going to have sex. We should at least arm them with proper and true information.

    Capslock
    exactly.

    xvart.
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  2. #66
    rattler's Avatar
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    one thing to take into consideration on "teen sex"...........100-150 years ago and throughout history before that.... it was normal to be married and starting a family at 14-16.......nothing biologically has changed with ppl in that time period....just sociologically...in western countries.......
    cervid serial killer
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  3. #67
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattler_mt View Post
    one thing to take into consideration on "teen sex"...........100-150 years ago and throughout history before that.... it was normal to be married and starting a family at 14-16.......nothing biologically has changed with ppl in that time period....just sociologically...in western countries.......
    Interesting. I had never thought of that before, Rattler; but, it does make sense. Thanks for bringing that up.

    xvart.
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  4. #68
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClintParsons View Post
    You don't need a condom to have sex. It's not a key to a car. That's the whole point; you don't need one to have sex but you should use one and have access. Your opinion that your morality should be enforced on everyone else is not good enough. It's not worth teenagers getting pregnant and possibly ruining their lives. They could have been doctors or lawyers, but at 14 with a kid it's hard to concentrate on your home work, isn't it? Sure, they can get abortions, but that leaves the risk of some emotional trauma. Of course they could have the kid and put it up for adoption, but then there's just another kid that could be bounced from foster home to foster home.

    There is also a part of me that feels that if someone is stupid enough to have sex without a condom, if they get pregnant they really deserve it when they're practically free when you buy them, and they ARE free from health teachers and health clinics. My friend thought she'd be OK if her BF pulled out, and that they didn't need a condom. Luckily she didn't get pregnant, although if she had she could have expected to whine about it to someone other than me. Maybe that makes me a bad friend, but it certainly makes her stupid.

    With a condom, however, all of that would be avoided 99.9% of the time. And that's just pregnancy. That doesn't touch on disease. I was ASTONISHED when I heard on TV that one out of five peole have herpes or HPV (or something like that.). I had NO idea. Now I'm even more afraid of sex, even with a condom lol. If more people used condoms, then maybe it wouldn't be so high.
    I agree with some of what you said but you're missing what I'm trying to say. I'm not basing this on just my faith or beliefs or morality for that matter. From a logical standpoint, it makes no sense for a couple to engage in sex (I guess particularly heterosexuals) if they are not able to maturely and financially deal with the consequences of it. So why is it wrong then to encourage and promote waiting until you're able to deal with it? Obviously not everyone is going to want to wait but more can be done to show kids the consequences of sex.
    James 1:17

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  5. #69

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    I think it's fair to say that it is not accurate to claim the Bible influenced the forefathers when laying the groundwork for our country. Just because you see a pattern does not mean there is a pattern.
    x2 again. The christian's argument is that if there's no god, where does morality come from? It's innate within us. People have existed for 100-250,000 years. Do you REALLY think they survived and had functioning society for 98,000-248,000 years, and thought murder, ****, etc were all perfectly ok, until they got the ten commandments and realized, "uh oh, we've had it wrong this whole time!". That's ridiculous....humans wouldn't have been able to exist for so long if we thought all that stuff was perfectly fine. Those things were outlawed long before the abrahamic religions came into being. If our laws are based so heavily on the bible, why isn't anyone arrested for coveting their neighbor's wife or cattle?
    We live in the only nation that not only guarantees us freedom of religion, but freedom FROM religion, and that is what the founding fathers put into the Constitution. They wanted people to be free from any and all religion, not to "instill christian values in everyone" or some other such nonsense. Read Thomas Jefferson: Author of America for a much needed history lesson. Of the founding fathers that did believe in a god, almost all of them were deists. Also, you can look it up and see what religion most of those people were, but that's kind of a zeitgeist thing. A good number of them were atheists, but back in those days, it was dangerous to announce a lack of faith, so many people did not.

    God didn't need to deem them so - they stand on their own!
    Agreed. Human society has outlawed those things since the beginning (10s of thousands of years before the abrahamic god). We didn't need "god" to come in and go "yeah, btw, you're doing it right". We already knew.



    If I show my dog his leash, he wants to go for a walk. If I hand someone keys to a sports car that's parked in a massive parking lot, they're going to try to find it and drive it.
    Faulty logic. The dog "psyche" is nothing like that of a human's. Dogs work through conditioned response, while (clearly only some) humans have rationality and reason to work off of. As to the second example, the person won't go driving around if you mention the side effects are AIDS, herpes, and the worst STD of all: a kid!

    Btw, the pill is 99.7% effective....which more or less = 100%. I've been hitting it nasty since I was 14, and I've never had a condom break, never gotten a girl pregz, etc. If a girl takes the pills like she should, and isn't on antibiotics, it more or less will not fail. 99.7% efficacy + 90something% efficacy for condoms = you're safe from pregnancy. Period. What is with all these fools that think if semen gets in a girl ONE TIME she's going to get pregnant? It doesn't work like that, and there are many more couples than you think that are trying to have kids and can't, or it takes a month+ to get it right.

    many would argue even greater odds that the activity is going to take place regardless if a contraceptive is available.
    Prove it. I've turned girls down before because a condom wasn't available.

    I'm sorry but could you show me where I said for religious reasons I don't believe condoms should be taught?
    I never said you said that. Read before you try to misrepresent me yet again. However, "abstinence only" finds its greatest support in the religious right.

    Maybe before you partake in discussions on this forum you should remove your blatant hatred to anyone who isn't as Atheist as yourself.
    No thanks, I'm quite happy with things as they are. Humanity would undoubtedly be far better off and able to advance to our full potential without the superstitious unfounded poison that is religion. Not to mention, there'd be much less senseless killing!
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  6. #70
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outsiders71 View Post
    So why is it wrong then to encourage and promote waiting until you're able to deal with it?
    Because giving someone adequate knowledge and a condom is not "encouraging" them to have sex. It's educating them so that if they do decide to have sex, we are encouraging them to do it safely and responsibly.

    And, the whole point that has sort of been glossed over is about the supplemental education about the fiscal, social, etc. responsibilities of having a child or getting an STD. Abstinence only education doesn't worry about this because none of that matters because kids shouldn't be having sex and won't have sex (except it doesn't work).

    It's a dual approach. Teach about the consequences of sex while teaching how to behave responsibility instead of not teaching anything.

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  7. #71
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    You're 100% correct. The thing is, we are not Vulcans. Sex isn't a logical act. The times where it is done with the purpose of producing a child are the minority. It's fun. People do it because it's fun, not because they want kids. It feels fantastic, but if you're a virgin (I mean no offense, if that's your decision that's cool with me) then you can't really know that. Unless you've had the safest sex of all, in which case you better go pray for forgiveness for that, too, but the truth is they can't compare. It's like a Happy Meal versus a five course meal prepared from scratch laid out on silver, with 50 year old wine.

    Promoting waiting until you deal with the consequences, IE a baby, is not the same as promoting waiting until you're married. You can be emotionally mature enough to deal with a kid before you are married. What if you decide that your way of dealing with the consequences is to have an abortion? That's perfectly acceptable, However, with condoms, there's really no need to worry.

    In school, health classes do not encourage you to become a doctor. Math classes do not encourage you to become a mathematician. Science classes do not encourage you to become a chemist and English classes do not encourage you to become a writer. They are things you MUST know in this world. What you do with the information you learn is your own business.



    I don't think you ever answered my comprehension question :P

  8. #72
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClintParsons View Post
    but if you're a virgin then you can't really know that.
    The point here would be that teenagers are all virgins at one point and don't know. SO I would add to the supporting instincts and human psyche position. We are sexual beings, period, whether we've had sex already or not.

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

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