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Plant Patent

Not to intrude, but what exactly does a plant "patent" mean? Does that restrict our ability to propagate it in any way? How is it good?

Capslock



Merged related posts to new topic from the auction topic...
Andrew
 
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Patent

I don't know if there are any fines or anything, but yes, James Booman did patent this plant. I guess one could face "punishment" for "patent violation" or something ... gotta look into that. I see where you are coming from though, Max. Indeed - how would it be enforcable? Anyway, maybe a separate thread on this subject would be good :)
 
Yeah, on the surface this seems like totally ridiculous. You do not "invent" something you simply discover among seedlings, and the only reason to get a plant patent is to secure some sort of rights to it. Officially, it means "A plant patent lasts for 20 years from the date of filing the patent application and gives the inventor the right to exclude others from asexually reproducing, selling, or using the plant so reproduced.
http://inventors.about.com/cs/biopatents/a/aa_plant_patent.htm

Doesn't sound good to me.

Capslock
 
Max- It appears to me that SOME folks will place a patent on a plant to make it appear more desireable, rare, and/or worthwhile than it really is.
 
I had just acquired some new stock for my store... And upon researching to write the descriptions I found one of these plants also has a patent... So guess I can't sell those. Hopefully it's okay to trade them. ??? :sigh:
Andrew
 
What was it? Can't see why you couldn't trade it. Personally I think patenting plants is a bit of a joke. Especially with something like a sarr that can asexually reproduce on its own.
 
Hi Andrew, thanks for moving this to a new thread. Hmm... I've seen 'Cobras Nest' for sale at quite a few locations. Some other places also sell "Red Bug" - and I think that's another one that is patented? No? Seems like a plant patent does not prevent one from selling the plant -- or does it just say that one can not propagate it?!? What next? LOL - Will there be another government agency issuing licenses to propagate certain flora?!?
 
What I have is red bug.... Here is what I've found on it so far:

Because the federal government allows individuals and companies to acquire trademarks on plant names and actual patents on certain plants, many gardeners ask whether it's legal to propagate those plants. Master gardener Paul James clarifies the issue:

The United States Patent and Trademark Office issues two symbols:

* An "R" within a circle means that a particular plant name has been officially registered and trademarked.
* A small "TM" by the plant name means that the trademarked name has been claimed but not officially registered. Trademarks remain in effect for 10 years, but they can be renewed indefinitely in 10-year increments.

If you see a plant whose name includes either of those symbols, you can propagate it asexually by taking cuttings. You can even sell the propagated plants for profit, but you can't call those plants by the trademarked name or acquire your own trademark for those same plants. You can, however, use the plant's cultivar name if it has one (shown in single quotes)--assuming that it isn't also patented.

Patented plants are a different subject altogether. A plant's patent is good for 17 or 20 years, and it is not renewable. But during that time, it gives the holder exclusive control over that plant.

Plants that have been patented will have either a patent number on the label or some indicator that a patent has been applied for. Patented plants may not be propagated in any way, shape or form without the owner's permission or until the patent term has expired. There aren't any plant patent police out there, but nurserymen and various trade organizations are always on the lookout for those seeking to infringe on a patent.
from http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/gl_plants_propagation/article/0,1785,HGTV_3611_1397126,00.html

Seems like a joke to me too! As mentioned... Sarrs reproduce just by living. so I need to right away take out extra plants and destroy them?
 
Dude, Paul James is friqin awesome, LOL. I used to catch a bit of his show now and then. Good stuff.

Thanks for clarifying. Geez, that is a Joke to me still. What the heck are you going to when you see your "Red Bug" or "Cobras Nest" busting the pot at the seams?!? If it was one's invention, fine. I get it. But these are PLANTS - living things!

Looks like they'll have to issue propagation licenses after all... geeez.
 
  • #10
Gimme a break folks. Booman Florals is a wholesale nursery. They sell the plants to their authorized distributors who in turn sell them to retailers who sell to the public or Booman's sells them (at wholesale) directly to the retailers.

So of course you see them for sale.

All your non-generic prescription drugs are patented. You don't buy them directly from the pharmaceutical companies do you?

As far as propagating them you need a license from Booman's to do so. If Joe-garage-tissue-culture starts cloning them and gets caught Joe's gonna get spanked. Propagating by division takes a long time so it isn't really worth their time to worry about.

Why do you think S. 'Adrian Slack' is so rare? It's been difficult to get this plant into tissue culture.

Take a look at AgriStarts3 price list and you'll notice many of the plants have a royalty fee listed. That's because AGS3 is licensed to Tissue Culture these plants.

BTW here's the link to 'Cobra's Nest' USPATOFF entry:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...50&s1=PP12821.PN.&OS=PN/PP12821&RS=PN/PP12821

Just use the uspto.gov search engine. Plants are prefixed with PP so search on PP12821
 
  • #11
Awww I see that I stirred up a (tongue in cheek ) cobra's nest.LOL
Andrew provided me with info on plant patents. Thanx andrew.little did i know this heated debate was goin on over here on T F
Here is my take( opinion, view) on the subjest If the plant has a printed,authorized patent label on it. IMMSMC the label states that there is a 10.000 fine for propagating that particular plant either sexually or asexually without the written consent of the owner of that patent owner.
I'll let you know for sure what the words are as a friend os mine who owns a small wholesale nursery, has been granted permission to grow 200 of these plant this yearShe'll get her labels in a day or 2. yes they are being circulated by booman's.( the patent holder)yet some of them are jest being sold with Booman's generirc sarracenia ,pitcher plants labels.
Talk about muddy waters.LOL
Lois
 
  • #12
If I buy a plant, I'm going to do whatever the hell I want with it as long as it's not a business. Regardless of the legality, if I pay for a plant and want to sell divisions later on (not talking about countless TC clones here), I'm going to do it. You'd have to be an unimaginable loser or really desperate to sue a hobbyist for something like that (once again, I am NOT talking about tissue culture).

Unless a plant is genetically engineered, then I don't believe in patents, and even if it is it's still kind of stupid. Breeding alone does not warrant a patent in my opinion. Are farmers going to be sued for not having a license to grow wheat that blew in from a neighboring farm that DID have a license?
 
  • #13
I agree with you, its ridiculous that you can patent a natural living thing. Though these patents do hold as I am aware of a farmer who got sued and lost for replanting corn from genetically modified plants he had grown legally after purchasing the seed stock. At the same time the drug companies are allowed to patent certain genetic sequences, which makes me wonder, does reproducing violate their patents if you posses a particular sequence?
 
  • #14
The plant patent applies mainly to wholesale greenhouses. Take a geranium that is unique for example. My mother plant can produce 20 cuttings each of which will have to have $ .02 royalties paid to the breeder. Multiply that times 200 stock plant and however many wholesale greenhouses and it adds up. Look up Ball Seed and see what they say about royalties.
 
  • #15
I knew this topic would end up over here! lol But...its good for discussion.

I maybe could see where plant patents might come into play with nurseries/businesses. If someone spent years developing a special cultivar to sell through their business exclusively, then I can understand being upset if a competing nursery got it and starting producing them, selling them, too...perhapes making even more than the inventor. Even so...it still doesn't feel right to patent living things.

How can you tell somebody not to divide or make seed with their own plant?? And what do you do with naturally occuring offspring? Kill them? Plant patents are a very strange thing.

The rarer plants are...the more desirable. The more desirable, the more lengths someone will go to get it. Hence, one of NASC's long-term goals is to make easily available propagated location plants so there is no need to take from the wild to acquire it.

And for that matter...suppose someone on their own with their own plants made the same cross as say 'Red Bug' and ended up with that cultivar. Suppose someone was not aware of the patent? ??? It's a slippery slope. Looks like a situation where enforcing the law on these patents would be inequitably applied.

I also think it sucks to sell someone plants for a store and NOT make it clear its patented and can't be sold when they KNOW its going to another nursery.
 
  • #16
In the article that Andrew sent me from the HGTV website. it specifically says there are no plant police out there but some nurserymen and trade organizations are always on the lookout for patent in fringement.


so A word to the wise should be sufficient.
I always tell my trading buddies if a plant is patented. and let them make up their own mind.
Lois
 
  • #17
Law can be pretty cold, unforgiving, and used in mangled ways. In terms of patents, they are miss used daily by corporations and Intellectural Property holding companys.

BTW, an IP company is one that does -nothing- more than purchase vague idea patents, then sue others (usually manufactures) that are using the idea.

Plant patents are -very- serious in the area of agriculture. Companies will spend millions of dollars developing their product and will aggressively defend it. Even if the patent is held by someone who doesn't care if it's being used, it can suddenly be sold to an IP company that does.

How can you tell somebody not to divide or make seed with their own plant??
The court system is happy to assist with the task if need be.

And what do you do with naturally occurring offspring? Kill them?
Yes, or enjoy them privately. Donations / give aways usually are fine, unless there is some type of license agreement. But even this is getting fuzzy. In some cases you can no longer sell the music / software you paid for, even if you're giving up the original copy.

*Question I throw out there for someone that knows: Does a royalty only have to be paid for once? Like flytraplady said earlier, she is being issued 200 labels. If the plant is resold 10 times but has the original 'licensed plant label' is still covered by the original royalty payment?

And for that matter...suppose someone on their own with their own plants made the same cross as say 'Red Bug' and ended up with that cultivar.
If the same ingredients are used to make the same product, you've just made a copyright infringing plant.

Suppose someone was not aware of the patent? ???
Ignorance is not an excuse for violating law.

If I buy a plant, I'm going to do whatever the hell I want with it as long as it's not a business. Regardless of the legality, if I pay for a plant and want to sell divisions later on (not talking about countless TC clones here), I'm going to do it.
Doesn't matter if it's you or a nursery, if you sell an illegal clone of a plant, it's still illegal and you can face the same consequences. Parallel example, download 1 illegal MP3 and the RIAA finds you, the song will cost you $750 for that .99 cent song. They don't care who you are. lol You are not above the law! (southpark character voice)

But again it all comes into question, does the copyright holder care? If they don't great! But if they do, be careful, it's not something to simply ignore because -you- don't like the idea.

Even our members here have been hurt by people ignoring copyright issues. There's a similar thread dealing with intellectual property. To a photographer who takes pictures for a living, getting the best shot of a life time only to have it lost to a magazine that makes 1,000,000 copies with no permission.... the loss is heart breaking for them and a financial loss as well.

To a grower who spends a decade of a professional career creating a unique hybrid; only to see it scooped up and sold at lowes in death cubes... the pain cause by that might be the same.
 
  • #18
If it is illegal, how would they know anyway? Unless you reported me to the patent holder and told him/her that I sold it to you, there's really no way they'd every know. I have one right now. I dare someone to make me pay royalties or any of that BS. I'd sooner burn the plant than dignify someone wanting ROYALTIES from a HOBBYIST! No matter how small. It's principal.

Good point about photography. But... this isn't a picture. Pictures don't grow and reproduce. Neither do MP3
s and movies. I don't have a problem with sharing MP3's and movies, by the way. It's not like you can say it's your own creation like a photo. Now, we do have copy and paste, but that's not quite the same thing :) We aren't talking about Lowes death cubes. We're talking about splitting an old plant and selling a few divisions.


It couldn't really be THAT cultivar unless it was a clone. I have a fundamental problem with the way cultivars are handled in this hobby. It's a JOKE. By the current rules, Wal-mart is full of Big-mouths. I could go buy a bunch of VFT's from wal-mart, unlabeled, and call them Big Mouths and redistribute them as such. That would be ethical going by the rules, but very unethical in a real world situation. I could do that because the rules say if it looks identical to a cultivar, then it may be called that. Even if it's unrelated. Of course I'd never do that, but it would be ethical (going by the rules here) for another to. As long as it looks identical. Hell, half of he Dionaea cultivars don't deserve that status in the first place, but I digress.
 
  • #19
If it is illegal, how would they know anyway?
Google knows, google knows everything, shhh google's watching right now.

Good point about photography. But... this isn't a picture. Pictures don't grow and reproduce.
A printer and a greenhouse can multiply things in the same manner.
 
  • #20
I still don't know how to do that quote thing, believe me I tried
Clint, please don't destroy your beautiful plant.

Mr FT good points taken.

Does any one know who the plant police are? I think that i described them in my last post.

For those of you who can't read between the lines. The rest of you please quit reading
they are people like you and me but belong to organizations like ICPS, nature conservatory. OOOPs can I mention those 2 organizations here on T F and other do gooders, and feel duty bound to report you to the authorities whoever they are or try to tell you as an american what to do when they have no business in your affairs.
Lois
 
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