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Thread: very, very good news...............

  1. #81
    rattler's Avatar
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    well jim every study out there has shown a correlation with a drop in violent crime rate when its easy for law abiding citizens are allowed to be armed and a rise in violent crime rates the tighter the gun control gets.....ever single gun ban has resulted in a dramatic spike in crime rates the following year.....you can sit and argue how you feel gun control will help and how things would be better if we ban guns but all studies prove otherwise which is why gun control freaks argue emotions and feelings and do not quote data cause there is none that supports them.........
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
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  2. #82
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
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    Show me the statistics.

  3. #83
    rattler's Avatar
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    what kinda stats do you want? what studies arent you going to complain about and if your going to make me spend my time digging them up instead of just googling "gun control statistics"(two big hints, focus on Florida and Australia for starters) you find me a couple that support you since im tired of arguing feelings with you two.......

    will have some for yah tonight though if yah really want them........cant use a computer at work cause there isnt an extra one and we now have a 4pm deadling to get our pages to the printer.....
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  4. #84
    rattler's Avatar
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    http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

    im looking for another site that i ran across last week....will post it when i find it again
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  5. #85
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outsiders71 View Post
    The best example of what happens when you ban guns is easy to find. Look at all the university campus shootings, where guns are not allowed to be carried by legal means. I wonder how many lives could have been saved if guns were allowed to be carried by permit owning, law abiding citizens. Just because you have not been put in a situation where you believe a gun would be useful, doesn't mean you'll never be in that situation one day.
    I'm hesitant to jump in here since I don't have an opinion either way on this issue. I see both sides and now how I feel about me personally, but I'm not at liberty to say what the entire population should or shouldn't do; however, since the topic has come up on school shootings and I work on a college campus and have participated in many, many meetings on the subject of crises management, safety, and security, I feel obligated to chime in here. So here it goes (and I apologize in advance if you've read this before - I can't remember if I've posted similar comments here in the past or not):

    As a college administrator, I've been in some very uncomfortable meetings with students before, where I have ultimately decided what will happen with an individual's future; and, I'm referring to bad news. Some of these meetings, I can't imagine sitting in, if I knew that this student might be legally carrying a gun.

    As a minor example, a student who had twice claimed to going to commit suicide, which in turn disrupts the entire floor/hall/campus community. This student sent an email to a teacher saying she was going to shoot her brains out. Now, after the first incident I worked closely with counseling services, security, and other offices to help this student. After failing to uphold her end of the agreement, and threatening to kill herself again, I had to meet with her to tell her she had to move out, thus meaning she couldn't go to school anymore since she didn't have a place to live and was from further away, thus ruining everything she had worked so hard for.

    Imagine sitting in that room telling her that news, knowing she had already talked about shooting herself with a gun. If she started to pull out a gun am I the one that is supposed to pull mine out then and shoot her?

    Of course, some of you will say, that a person like that shouldn't have legal access to gun (which I agree) and you may say that she could bring a gun anyway (and she could); but in a more simple version are the times when someone spur of the moment decides that school isn't working out, I'm failing all my classes, oh... and I have a gun, so I'm going to shoot myself.

    Banning guns from college campuses won't stop school shootings (at least the ones in years past) but I believe, with no evidence to support my claim, it does cut down on the random acts of unplanned violence. Yes, having guns on campus may have saved some peoples lives, but I'm not sure that arming our students is the answer either.

    University's are going through hell these days setting up Behavioral Intervention Teams and other processes and checks/balances to find students that may be building up to situations where they may harm themselves or others. The Virginia Tech student was obviously problematic since so many people had incidents with him that alone did not stack up to anything but combined was beyond cause for concern. It's just that nobody shared these concerns, and no compiled record was kept.

    College campuses should be safe places for students; and just like any safe place, there is always the possibility of a crisis. I don't think at this time (depending on where you live), a vast majority of the college students aren't ready and aren't comfortable going to a college campus where students are armed. Colleges and Universities are places of shared knowledge and education, and with that mission and obligation, there are ways to help save lives outside of arming everyone else, which all college campuses are working on, including ones where guns are allowed.

    To wrap up that, do I think guns should be allowed on college campuses? Absolutely not. Is it my opinion that every college that allows guns is wrong? Not necessarily; I just know I'll never work at one.

    Quote Originally Posted by rattler_mt View Post
    as far as i am aware you can carry on campus in Utah and have been able to for years....have yet to hear about a campus shooting in Utah.......
    There are also plenty of states that ban guns on campus that haven't had shootings, too. And, in my opinion, I highly doubt that having an armed campus would deter any columbine/Virgina Tech/Northern Illinois University like incidents.

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  6. #86
    rattler's Avatar
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    the issue being xvart is that if a student does go off the deep end weither or not a campus allows concealed carry has no bearing on what they are going to do.....the fact of the matter is that the chances of a someone who goes through the effort of getting a concealed carry license/permit, well statistically the chance of them causing a problem is so slim as to not be a factor statistically.......while i dont think you should require a license to exercise a god given right, i am will to concede to going through the effort to get a concealed carry permit to be able to do so.......
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  7. #87
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    Rattler I agree with you totally. Had a student had a handgun in class the day the VA tech guy was there he would have been toast long before killing so many people. Those kids that threaten to commit suicide usually have mental issues and would not qualify for a concealed permit anyway. I think guns should be allowed to be carried by students in colleges.

    The only thing I can see is if a student saw the firearm and freaked out in class that someone had a gun. So maybe they should be marked as being able to carry somehow, or carry it as a side arm when permitted. Put it in plain site so people think twice. It is a touchy subject.
    JB
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  8. #88
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattler_mt View Post
    ....education trumps legislation every time........you murder someone in the commission of a crime, i say light the SOB up in the electric chair.....
    Hot damn rattler!!! I like how you think!! Education trumps legislation every time!!! No one wants to teach their kids anything any more. We have a bunch of pansy's around here any more. Of course if you hide guns from children and to not teach them the powerfulness of a gun of course they are going to be curious. Many people know how kids are, at least I know how I was, I was inquisitive and curious about everything. If a kid only sees a gun as a toy or on TV and do not know the true power of a gun then they will not know how to respect that weapon. Hiding the truth about guns from children is not the answer. What ever happened to education?
    JB
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