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Thread: yellow science

  1. #17
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    I think we're all insane. We all participate in these threads, they often go on for ten or more pages, we all say the same thing every single time, and I can't count how many times we have done this. It's always the same people on the same sides, and we always do it expecting different results apparently, otherwise we wouldn't do it. We're insane.


    And very soon, especially soon since it's an election year and perhaps the most important election in our lifetimes thus far, there will be another thread and we'll do it again and say the same things and be on the same sides and we'll all get pissed off until the next thread. We're insane.

  2. #18
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    Will someone please explain to me how buying a carbon offset decrease the "Actual" amount of carbon admitted into the atmosphere? You produce your carbon then buy something that says that carbon you just produced is negated? How is that so? Apparently I do not understand the concept.

    To me it just looks like you buy the "offsets" to reduce the number of carbon you produce on paper, but the actual amount stays the same. Or am I missing a very big part of it?
    JB
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  3. #19
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    You give money to a company by buying a credit, and the company that produces a negative carbon footprint offset your carbon footprint so the end result is no carbon footprint (depending on how many credits you buy). This is how Al Gore can fly around in a private jet and not be a hypocrite, because his footprint is offset. It's kind of like eating an entire pie, but it's OK if you exercise every calorie off in addition to your normal workout routine. In the end it doesn't matter because the damage is nullified.

    That's the nice answer. The frank answer is that it's just a way for rich people to pretend their real environmentalist (Although Al really is, but he can't be bothered to share jets apparently) and feel better about themselves. It's always easier to throw money at a problem than actually do something. That's why there are so many of those Feed the Children commercials. People would rather send 50 cents (or whatever ) a month and sleep well at night instead of doing something. Of course I can't judge. I don't do anything, either. I'm far too busy being delicious.




    That was a Judge Fudge reference in case you missed that

  4. #20
    BigBella's Avatar
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    No, you're not missing the point. The notion is that somehow with offsets, somewhere, someone will either plant a tree or invest in some furturitic Wellsian fusion technology to compensate for the oil your VW bus is currently spewing and the CO2 from your interminable breathing.

    Carbon offsets are simply the environmental equivilent of white liberal guilt; and it will soon be up to the UN and the IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) to ultimately determine global policy. This panel from the UN is considered to be experts in the climatological field -- and their influence, globally, will be in the trillions of dollars. One of their models for Tb change to the year 2100 (crap, they cannot predict an oceanic swell with any accuracy) ranges from one-point five to six degrees of change -- about four times or a 400% uncertainty range. I never was allowed that much latitude with the IRS. Here are a few of their assessments . . .


    “Climate variations and change, caused by external forcings, may be partly predictable, particularly on the larger, continental and global, spatial scales. Because human activities, such as the emission of greenhouse gases or land-use change, do result in external forcing, it is believed that the large-scale aspects of human-induced climate change are also partly predictable. However the ability to actually do so is limited because we cannot accurately predict population change, economic change, technological development, and other relevant characteristics of future human activity. In practice, therefore, one has to rely on carefully constructed scenarios of human behaviour and determine climate projections on the basis of such scenarios . . .

    “The state of science at present is such that it is only possible to give illustrative examples of possible outcomes . . .

    “While we do not consider that the complexity of a climate model makes it impossible to ever prove such a model “false” in any absolute sense, it does make the task of evaluation extremely difficult and leaves room for a subjective component in any assessment . . .

    “The long term prediction of future climate states is not possible . . ."

    Quote Originally Posted by JB_OrchidGuy View Post
    Will someone please explain to me how buying a carbon offset decrease the "Actual" amount of carbon admitted into the atmosphere? You produce your carbon then buy something that says that carbon you just produced is negated? How is that so? Apparently I do not understand the concept.

    To me it just looks like you buy the "offsets" to reduce the number of carbon you produce on paper, but the actual amount stays the same. Or am I missing a very big part of it?
    Hey,

    Congratulations. You stole my thunder before I could return from producing more anthropogenic CO2 . . .

    As a scientist myself, I greatly value dissent and I feel that in academia, it has become as rare as hen's teeth; and that, where great amounts -- no, obscene amounts -- of money is to be had (with unltimately little or nothing concrete to show for it), the arena is absolutely rife with fraud. I worked in / for environmental labs for years and results -- especially for high-priced clients were routinely "finessed" -- so much so that I was scarcely able to recognize any of my own work. If practice is as corrupt on the small scale, simply imagine the converse where billions is to be had . . .

    The further boondoggle of carbon credits immediately comes to mind. If there were any doubt that Global Warming (no, "Climate Change" - "Dianetics" in lieu of "Scientology", please) has ascended to the heights of religion and balks at dissent, the True Believers also have their own form of Papal indulgences -- a twenty-first century answer to the "sin-eaters" of the Middle Ages. Nevermind that Gore is intimately involved with one of the companies (I did vote for he and Bubba the first time, much to my chagrin) . . .

    Alas, there seems little room for the doubters and agnostics anymore and nevermind how many sources you come up with to debate; True Believers will simply balk at their bona fides and claim they either have nothing to say as trained fellow scientists or maybes the dissenters have simply pledged the wrong fraternity, or followed the wrong macrobiotic diet to raise such ire . . .


    “Sì perché l'autorità dell'opinione di mille nelle scienze non val per una scintilla di ragione di un solo . . ."

    -- Galileo "Biff" Galilei

  5. #21
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    I don't have anything new to say about the matter other than that someday I hope to plant a lemon tree here. That is all.
    that makes no logic

  6. #22
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBella View Post
    No, you're not missing the point.
    Me? Lol, you just said the same thing I did with different words...

  7. #23
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    I hope to plant more nepenthes to suck up some of my CO2 emissions.

    My thing is if everyone buys carbon credits, then who is the one making less carbon? That means that the same amount of carbon is being emitted and therefor the same crap is happening with a whole lot of money floating around.

    Gore is a ******* kook. I despise the poor slob. He is a fat grotesque man now and loves to buy his OFFSETS to give the impression of being green. He didn't add solar to his place till it was pointed out he didn't have anything "green" like that at his place.

    So I thought I had the idea of carbon credits was a load of cow patties. Does absolutely nothing for the environment. If you want someone to plant a tree then join the Arbor Day Foundation If you want someone to produce "green" technologies invest in those companies.
    JB
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  8. #24
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    You have a point, Josh - carbon credits are pure BS and they don't address the problem of emissions at all. It's a gesture by the industry to look like they're taking care of the problem. But that doesn't at all dispute global warming. I haven't really heard anything here that has - best luck convincing someone else. I'm bored with this thread.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

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