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Thread: Should we prepare?

  1. #17
    Katherine
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    This argument is pointless. I am not going to bother checking this thread again.
    Drosera Arcturi-The Alpine Sundew...

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  2. #18
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    I mean, what are you doing besides complaining about how much you dislike human kind? What are you doing to make things better besides being cynical?

    And why post to say you won't check the thread when you weren't even participating?

  3. #19
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ant View Post
    Um, the human nature is only conserned with their lives witch is supported by money. People only care about themselves and usually only want their lives to be better so they want to save their money to make their lives better.
    That's a pretty extremist and narrow minded viewpoint, don't you think? You're telling me every single person in the entire world doesn't care about anything outside of him or herself? I bet you would get a pretty long list of people on this forum alone that are involved in jobs, clubs, activities, etc. that have little to do with personal gain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ant View Post
    The cleaner resourse end is all just an effect that is caused by the want for cheeper energy.
    And cheaper energy is only good for me since I only care about myself? And here I thought it would be beneficial for everyone, and better for the environment. As I said, it may be an outcome, but it that doesn't mean it was all just smoke and mirrors and we all were deceived. Like it or not, the whole world is not being duped or tricked into thinking that cheaper and more efficient energy is just self sustaining, egotistical, selfish behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ant View Post
    Last time I checked, one person doesn't change the entire countries transportation alone.
    Maybe so, but do you think that every single innovation was spawned by a conglomerate of CEOs in their private jets, getting lapdances, while watching youtube on their iPods? For example, Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone. One man revolutionized the way the entire world communicates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ant View Post
    if they don't complain (debating and express their views) no one else well understand what you think and nothing will happen. Like it or not complaining is nessecary to convince others to act as well.
    I think you missed the part in my post where I agree with that. My point, that apparently wasn't clear enough, was that only complaining doesn't do anything. Yes, the complaints act as a catalyst for revolution. But at the end of the day, the people who only complained only reap the benefits of the people who changed the world. At the end of the day, the people who only complained get to say just that: "I wasn't a part of the change. I just complained." I suppose they could say, "If it wasn't for my complaining and inaction, we wouldn't have hybrid cars." Talk about selfish! It was Gandhi who said, "You must be the change you wish to see in the world."

    There is a huge difference between just complaining in casual conversation and complaining and being adamant about nothing ever changing.

    Everyone who complained about how slow letters got to their loved ones back in the 1800s only got the benefits of being able to call them with a telephone, which I might add was thanks to one man; which, is totally counter intuitive to your argument about the self serving ideology everyone seems to possess.

    I might add that my posts may seem rather "idealistic" and "grand," but I want to be clear that it is extremely applicable to the topic at hand.

    xvart.

    edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by kath View Post
    This argument is pointless. I am not going to bother checking this thread again.
    Okay... thanks for the update...
    Last edited by xvart; 07-01-2008 at 11:02 PM.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  4. #20
    Your one and only pest! Ant's Avatar
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    [QOUTE=xvart]That's a pretty extremist and narrow minded viewpoint, don't you think? You're telling me every single person in the entire world doesn't care about anything outside of him or herself? I bet you would get a pretty long list of people on this forum alone that are involved in jobs, clubs, activities, etc. that have little to do with personal gain.[/QUOTE]

    Thats true seeing how this is a forum made up of people that love plants and animals. If someone didn't care atleast about endangered carnivorous plants why would they even join the forum?

    [QOUTE=xvart]And cheaper energy is only good for me since I only care about myself? And here I thought it would be beneficial for everyone, and better for the environment. As I said, it may be an outcome, but it that doesn't mean it was all just smoke and mirrors and we all were deceived. Like it or not, the whole world is not being duped or tricked into thinking that cheaper and more efficient energy is just self sustaining, egotistical, selfish behavior.[/QOUTE]

    I am not saying everyone is doing it for self gain. I am saying that most people wouldn't do it if it was going to cost more and more money just to help the enviroment. I am saying if it makes their lives harder then most people wouldn't go for the new energy sources because it only helps the enviroment.

    [QOUTE=xvart]Maybe so, but do you think that every single innovation was spawned by a conglomerate of CEOs in their private jets, getting lapdances, while watching youtube on their iPods? For example, Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone. One man revolutionized the way the entire world communicates.[/QUOTE]

    Okay maybe he did, but that is not trying to replace a convineant transportation method with a new one.
    Last edited by xvart; 07-02-2008 at 08:30 AM. Reason: fixed quotes

  5. #21
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Okay, Ant. The only other thing I can say is this:

    "I wish I was taller."

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  6. #22
    Your one and only pest! Ant's Avatar
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    um, what?

    BTW: Sorry, I don't know what happened but, you fixxed the quotes but, I broke them, how do you fix the qoutes so you don't need to bother with it?

  7. #23
    Two flies one pitcher. Minus the crap eating. obregon562's Avatar
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    I turn off the computer for a few hours...

    obregon, that is NOW. That is completely missing what people are complaining about, in 2000 we only paid $1 or so a gallon, now it is 4x more. So if it continues like this it would look something like this.
    2010=$5
    2012=$6
    2014=$7
    2016=$8
    2018=$9
    2020=$10
    Now I am pretty sure most of us will be alive in 2020. So with your averages it would cost $350 a DAY, thats way more then the cost of a month now. Obregin, look to the futures problems too, not just the current ones and see if we can stop them before they happen cause some may still affect you. Also it is hard to pay $78 dollars more a month on gas. My family is having trouble like MOST. I think the goverment should sponsor nuclear, wind, and maybe solar power development allot more. There is no easy way to fix fossil fuel car problems until the eletrical energy is converted.
    If that formula was true, we be paying hundreds of dollars per gallon today. When cars were first introduced in the US, they were an expensive oddity. Gas wasn't common then, and cost ~$4 a gallon in early 20th century dollars. We are not paying $150 a gallon, and your formula is highly unlikely.

    $78 is next to nothing, honestly. I am a lower-middle or middle-middle class citizen, and trust me, I am CHEAP. $78 is, like 2, 8-hour, min. wage work days. If gas is so precious, 16 hours is a small price to pay.

    If you think the government should play a more active role in economics, ask the North Koreans how they like it. Then maybe. If our government did somehow get that much power, think of how corrupt our already-corrupt politicians would be. Most of their biggest sponsors are oil companies, so if they were allowed direct access to non-oil fuel companies, they would probably shut them down or buy them out.
    I am not saying everyone is doing it for self gain.
    Oh, your not?

    Um, the human nature is only conserned with their lives witch is supported by money. People only care about themselves and usually only want their lives to be better so they want to save their money to make their lives better
    Really, I think this gas "crisis" is just a grossly exaggerated scare. Things are not that bad. The only people who suffer are the ones who are too lazy to adapt and change to the world. They are prime examples of Mr. Darwin’s "survival of the fittest". If you don’t want to work a little more, or do a few things that are a little inconvenient, you have no right to complain. End of it.
    "It's easy to rip on cops, when you aren't the one needing saving"

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  8. #24
    BigBella's Avatar
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    I lived and worked overseas for a time and the Europeans have spent a far greater amount for gasoline in recent years. One recent figure had it at just over eight dollars (litres to gallons) or more in some countries. While there have been some recent riots, especially with the soaring diesel, I don't think it's pure-grain alcohol, rainwater, and the "preservation of our precious bodily fluids" just yet . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Ant View Post
    again, you still are ignoring the future. The "better end" you were talking about can only happen if we activly try to make things better for everyone, but that won't happen because people are self richous horribly selfish creatures that should have never existed.
    BTW the reason we NEED better resourses is because if everyone had an american mild class lifestyle it would take 4 earths to support! The only thing I see in the future in enviromental and human suffering. I have no faith in human nature.
    “Sì perché l'autorità dell'opinione di mille nelle scienze non val per una scintilla di ragione di un solo . . ."

    -- Galileo "Biff" Galilei

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