Trapper7
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I disagree with that. The word "cracker" comes to mind, which is what "non-white" people call white people when they're trying to be mean.
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I disagree with that. The word "cracker" comes to mind, which is what "non-white" people call white people when they're trying to be mean.
Clint
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JB_OrchidGuy
Cardiac Nurse
First of all I hate being politically correct. That is one of the things wrong these day. No one is trying to offend the other. No matter how you put it, interracial or mixed it means the same thing.
And I am just telling you that some people are just voting for him because he is black and no other reason because they believe his policies would do more to benefit them. I am sorry, but fair is fair. Neither person should get the upper hand when everything else is equal.
I am sorry I have been in many reverse discrimination events. I went to an all black high school where I was one of 9 white students int he place. I have also been singled out because of my truck since I had a car club sticker on the back of it. So don't tell me that is doesn't exist.
Al Sharpton I truly despise the man. One of the masters of the continued racial divide. If there wasn't a black on white or white on black argument around something he would turn it into it. Him and Jesse Jackson do everything they can to fuel the racial fire. If you ask them Every black American is repressed and has no chance in America. If that is the case then what is Obama and C. Rice? What about Colon Powell?
Clint the reason Cracker and other derogatory things blacks call white do not have as much impact because white don't go making a big deal about it. So this leaves us with Black being able to make racial comments (Even if not meant as such), but God forbid a white make that same kind of comment and he is labeled as a racist. If things are truly to be fair this type of stuff would not happen. I am tired of seeing the double standard there.
You want me to vote for a Black man give me one worth voting for. I would vote Colon Powell. Heck you want me to vote for a woman? I would vote for C. Rice. that covers two birds with one stone, a black woman. Because AT THIS POINT I think they would be good. Just as with Obama I thought they would be good. Here is my thread Would you vote Obama in 08 I liked him in the beginning, but now I don't think he is good.
Just a little FYI for those who think I am still a racist, because I know you're out there, My Doctor whom I just went to see today is a black man and I like him better than my last Dr. That is why I switched.
And another FYI, Just because you disagree with me here and even if it gets heated and emotionally charged, I do not take it personally and I am still friends with everyone. You do not have to have the same opinions than I to be friends. Clint I am going to pick on you a little bit. You and I have very very different views on some things, but I still consider you a good friend. that goes for all my other friends here. Just because we disagree in this type of situation doesn't mean I dislike you as a friend. We just have a difference of opinions, and can agree to disagree without it affecting friendships I hope.
And I am just telling you that some people are just voting for him because he is black and no other reason because they believe his policies would do more to benefit them. I am sorry, but fair is fair. Neither person should get the upper hand when everything else is equal.
I am sorry I have been in many reverse discrimination events. I went to an all black high school where I was one of 9 white students int he place. I have also been singled out because of my truck since I had a car club sticker on the back of it. So don't tell me that is doesn't exist.
Al Sharpton I truly despise the man. One of the masters of the continued racial divide. If there wasn't a black on white or white on black argument around something he would turn it into it. Him and Jesse Jackson do everything they can to fuel the racial fire. If you ask them Every black American is repressed and has no chance in America. If that is the case then what is Obama and C. Rice? What about Colon Powell?
Clint the reason Cracker and other derogatory things blacks call white do not have as much impact because white don't go making a big deal about it. So this leaves us with Black being able to make racial comments (Even if not meant as such), but God forbid a white make that same kind of comment and he is labeled as a racist. If things are truly to be fair this type of stuff would not happen. I am tired of seeing the double standard there.
You want me to vote for a Black man give me one worth voting for. I would vote Colon Powell. Heck you want me to vote for a woman? I would vote for C. Rice. that covers two birds with one stone, a black woman. Because AT THIS POINT I think they would be good. Just as with Obama I thought they would be good. Here is my thread Would you vote Obama in 08 I liked him in the beginning, but now I don't think he is good.
Just a little FYI for those who think I am still a racist, because I know you're out there, My Doctor whom I just went to see today is a black man and I like him better than my last Dr. That is why I switched.
And another FYI, Just because you disagree with me here and even if it gets heated and emotionally charged, I do not take it personally and I am still friends with everyone. You do not have to have the same opinions than I to be friends. Clint I am going to pick on you a little bit. You and I have very very different views on some things, but I still consider you a good friend. that goes for all my other friends here. Just because we disagree in this type of situation doesn't mean I dislike you as a friend. We just have a difference of opinions, and can agree to disagree without it affecting friendships I hope.
"First of all I hate being politically correct. That is one of the things wrong these day. No one is trying to offend the other. No matter how you put it, interracial or mixed it means the same thing." <--- you can get away with saying mixed and its okay, its just impolite.. theres nothign really wrong with it, its your perogative if you want to say it over biracial, no one should complain on that its wrong, its just alittle less... as i said polite. You dont HAVE to be polite, haha you may even disagree that its impolite and thats totally cool, its really not that big of a deal.
"I am just telling you that some people are just voting for him because he is black and no other reason because they believe his policies would do more to benefit them. I am sorry, but fair is fair. Neither person should get the upper hand when everything else is equal."<--- that is unfair and is really ignorant and thats the kind of voting we need to fix, but thats okay you dont think people were voting for hillary becuase she was a woman? you dont think people were voting against her becuase she was a woman, you dont think people arent specifically voting against obama because he's black? I'm sure people are voting for him since he's black, and I'm sure people vote against mccain becuase he's old and white, and people vote for him becuase he's old and white. All of those people are stupid and misguided and that sucks, we need to educate people more so they can vote with an educated decision unfortunately we are plagued with morons in our country and around the world.
The only way to beat that is just not to participate in that type of thinking, and rise above that all together and help other people do the same.
not voting for obama becuase others vote for him specifically for him being black is just a waste of a potentially intelligent vote in my opinion and we need all of them we can get.
I'm sure no one here would consider you a racist, thats a bold and serious accusation and one I personally think if its given out wrongly deserves an a$$whooping. with that in mind however, just becuase you went to a divserse highschool or had a black doctor that you liked over a white doctor doesnt mean your not racist, there IS a certain amount of prejudice in what your saying, but its only becuase your reacting the same way in which you voice so much distaste with, I mean think about it, you speak of the double standard with the slurs being less effective towards whites and how ridiculous that is and that is understandable and I agree, however your saying that you were discriminated against in your highschool and that is altering your feelings and your opinions on the subject, yet thats exactly what the african americans and other minorities are saying.
Thats exactly what we need to rise above, yes there are stupid people who mistreat people based upon things like race, but that doesn't mean its okay to try and balance that out by doing the opposite soley becuase of the mistreatment. its not about getting even or bringing those ignorant people down. its about making the intelligent decision and educating people to stop future mistreatment.
its a good thing becuase I liked talking to you guys both JB and Clint, so phew on that note, politics can get personal I just would hate to have that happen here with people I like to talk to
"I am just telling you that some people are just voting for him because he is black and no other reason because they believe his policies would do more to benefit them. I am sorry, but fair is fair. Neither person should get the upper hand when everything else is equal."<--- that is unfair and is really ignorant and thats the kind of voting we need to fix, but thats okay you dont think people were voting for hillary becuase she was a woman? you dont think people were voting against her becuase she was a woman, you dont think people arent specifically voting against obama because he's black? I'm sure people are voting for him since he's black, and I'm sure people vote against mccain becuase he's old and white, and people vote for him becuase he's old and white. All of those people are stupid and misguided and that sucks, we need to educate people more so they can vote with an educated decision unfortunately we are plagued with morons in our country and around the world.
The only way to beat that is just not to participate in that type of thinking, and rise above that all together and help other people do the same.
not voting for obama becuase others vote for him specifically for him being black is just a waste of a potentially intelligent vote in my opinion and we need all of them we can get.
I'm sure no one here would consider you a racist, thats a bold and serious accusation and one I personally think if its given out wrongly deserves an a$$whooping. with that in mind however, just becuase you went to a divserse highschool or had a black doctor that you liked over a white doctor doesnt mean your not racist, there IS a certain amount of prejudice in what your saying, but its only becuase your reacting the same way in which you voice so much distaste with, I mean think about it, you speak of the double standard with the slurs being less effective towards whites and how ridiculous that is and that is understandable and I agree, however your saying that you were discriminated against in your highschool and that is altering your feelings and your opinions on the subject, yet thats exactly what the african americans and other minorities are saying.
Thats exactly what we need to rise above, yes there are stupid people who mistreat people based upon things like race, but that doesn't mean its okay to try and balance that out by doing the opposite soley becuase of the mistreatment. its not about getting even or bringing those ignorant people down. its about making the intelligent decision and educating people to stop future mistreatment.
its a good thing becuase I liked talking to you guys both JB and Clint, so phew on that note, politics can get personal I just would hate to have that happen here with people I like to talk to
Clint
Stay chooned in for more!
Let me start of by saying that you're not a racist, but I hope you can see how you are sounding insensitive. Regardless of whether not not you're (not YOU, I mean anyone in generel) trying to offend anyone, when you don't think about what you write and say it DOES offend. That is why we have political correctness. If not, why not take it one step further and say "hybrids"? After all, it means the same thing. From a scientific perspective when considering species and subspecies/etc, that may be acceptable, but not socially. We disagree on several things, but not on the few issues that I take personally so there has never been a problem.
Cracker is not offensive not because we don't make a big deal about it. It's not offensive because we haven't gone through what AA's went through. It means nothing to us. We don't feel the pain that they do. It's like saying "******". Most straight people wouldn't get pissed if I called them "breeders" (not that I would, but that is a real slur.) It doesn't mean anything to them because they haven't ever gone through what gay people do. This is pretty much the sexual equivalent of the N word. What the AA's went through FAR surpasses what the gay community is going through, but I frequently use it as an example in discussions like this because it parallels so well.
Look at what you said. "You want me to vote for a black man give me one worth voting for." Even if you didn't MEAN this to sound racist, it sounds absolutely terrible. It implies that the majority of Black men wouldn't be worth your vote. You should have said something along the lines of "I would vote for Colin Powell, or Condoleezza Rice, but I no longer believe that Obama merits my vote." Can you see the huge difference? You said the same thing, but one makes you look like you're getting ready for a clan meeting, and the other isn't offensive at all.
Talking about balancing out the opposite... here's a funny story. My grandmother would always vote for the other candidate just to "cancel out" my grandfather's vote and piss him off
Cracker is not offensive not because we don't make a big deal about it. It's not offensive because we haven't gone through what AA's went through. It means nothing to us. We don't feel the pain that they do. It's like saying "******". Most straight people wouldn't get pissed if I called them "breeders" (not that I would, but that is a real slur.) It doesn't mean anything to them because they haven't ever gone through what gay people do. This is pretty much the sexual equivalent of the N word. What the AA's went through FAR surpasses what the gay community is going through, but I frequently use it as an example in discussions like this because it parallels so well.
Look at what you said. "You want me to vote for a black man give me one worth voting for." Even if you didn't MEAN this to sound racist, it sounds absolutely terrible. It implies that the majority of Black men wouldn't be worth your vote. You should have said something along the lines of "I would vote for Colin Powell, or Condoleezza Rice, but I no longer believe that Obama merits my vote." Can you see the huge difference? You said the same thing, but one makes you look like you're getting ready for a clan meeting, and the other isn't offensive at all.
Talking about balancing out the opposite... here's a funny story. My grandmother would always vote for the other candidate just to "cancel out" my grandfather's vote and piss him off
JB_OrchidGuy
Cardiac Nurse
And there are not many people left alive that have been through slavery. That is a bunch of BS too. I can understand if they were slaves themselves. A lot of the young black people are still using that same excuse. I have no control over what the whites of the past did and do not believe I oppress anyone. So they need to get over it and just learn from the past. Many of the white folks alive today had nothing to do with slavery. And Blacks are not going through oppression. Maybe perceived oppression if they choose to not apply themselves. Regardless of what you say. I have seen where in a lot of situations being black is a big advantage to some folks. Granted not all, but some.
Cmm I would not consider my high school to be diverse. Diverse in my opinion would be a general mix and not one stacked like it was. I would love to see things equal, but the way I see it the blame lays on both sides of the fence for things not being truly equal. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are prime exampled always playing the race card and fueling the fire every chance they get. Also with the notion of black schools and black churches. You cannot have equality when you continue to choose to segregate yourself.
I know I do not always express my words in a way that is all fruity and loving. I am more worried about getting my thoughts across, and when I am in class I type and go. I do not reread them. I don't always reread them at home either. I think being PC sucks because not every situation needs kid gloves.
Cmm I would not consider my high school to be diverse. Diverse in my opinion would be a general mix and not one stacked like it was. I would love to see things equal, but the way I see it the blame lays on both sides of the fence for things not being truly equal. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are prime exampled always playing the race card and fueling the fire every chance they get. Also with the notion of black schools and black churches. You cannot have equality when you continue to choose to segregate yourself.
You can take my comment the way you want to, but that is really whoever reads it problem. I stated the obvious I don't think Obama is worth my vote. You read into to the racial overtones and made it sound bad. People try to read into my comments and you cannot do that. I never said the majority of black men are not worth my vote. You read into that. That may be the case, but the same is also true about the majority of the white people would also not be worth my vote.
I know I do not always express my words in a way that is all fruity and loving. I am more worried about getting my thoughts across, and when I am in class I type and go. I do not reread them. I don't always reread them at home either. I think being PC sucks because not every situation needs kid gloves.
Clint
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upper
Capensis Killer
Clint
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JB_OrchidGuy
Cardiac Nurse
"Cmm I would not consider my high school to be diverse. Diverse in my opinion would be a general mix and not one stacked like it was. I would love to see things equal, but the way I see it the blame lays on both sides of the fence for things not being truly equal. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are prime exampled always playing the race card and fueling the fire every chance they get. Also with the notion of black schools and black churches. You cannot have equality when you continue to choose to segregate yourself" <--- By definition of diverse i guess you can say your school isnt but that wasn't the important part of what I was talking about it was just my way of saying that white wasn't the majority and I thought that was understood, no tehcnically your school wouldnt be diverse but thats not anyones fault, thats just the schools boundaries and where people tend to live... theres no real problem there. if you wanted bad enough to aviod the lack of of "diversity" and equality of race in your school I guess you could have moved and transferred and said you didnt like being the minority, but we can't make all school equal. and that shouldnt be a problem becuase it shouldnt be important whether 95% is black or white becuase people need to get over that, thats the whole point. race is unimportant.
"Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are prime exampled always playing the race card and fueling the fire every chance they get. Also with the notion of black schools and black churches. You cannot have equality when you continue to choose to segregate yourself."<----I agree they did alot in their time when it was a valid issue and now I think they do fuel situations where its unnecessary. so I agree with you here. and that black schools and black churches are strange there is a lack of equality there. are there actual rules about HAVING to be black in order to attend both of those? or is it just that its always been 99% african americans? I'm curious....
and as posted in my previous thread I do agree with the notion of using the slavery history as being anything more than history and something we need to take note of for educational purposes and as a refernce for the beginning of our country and our civil rights, it shouldnt come into play with our everyday lives anymore....
I dont really have much to fight with with your post
but as far as the PC thing goes... no one said being PC is a rule, but you can see why it sucks that you'd be rude with your terminology. it doesn't make you racist it just makes you an insensitive A$$ in most cases... which is totally your deal if thats what you want to be, no one says you cant cuss at every moment of every day and with anyone you want its just generally frowned upon...
not in your direction, really.
"Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are prime exampled always playing the race card and fueling the fire every chance they get. Also with the notion of black schools and black churches. You cannot have equality when you continue to choose to segregate yourself."<----I agree they did alot in their time when it was a valid issue and now I think they do fuel situations where its unnecessary. so I agree with you here. and that black schools and black churches are strange there is a lack of equality there. are there actual rules about HAVING to be black in order to attend both of those? or is it just that its always been 99% african americans? I'm curious....
and as posted in my previous thread I do agree with the notion of using the slavery history as being anything more than history and something we need to take note of for educational purposes and as a refernce for the beginning of our country and our civil rights, it shouldnt come into play with our everyday lives anymore....
I dont really have much to fight with with your post
but as far as the PC thing goes... no one said being PC is a rule, but you can see why it sucks that you'd be rude with your terminology. it doesn't make you racist it just makes you an insensitive A$$ in most cases... which is totally your deal if thats what you want to be, no one says you cant cuss at every moment of every day and with anyone you want its just generally frowned upon...
not in your direction, really.
Trapper7
Loves VFT's!
I would have said the same thing and said it just the way Josh said it, and I'm not racist either. I would say the same thing about John Kerry and he's white! I would also vote for C. Rice actually!
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Clint
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NO there are no rules requiring you to be black to go, it's just tradition. You can't do that... you know that.
He should have said "You want me to vote for someone? Give me someone that's worth voting for." Even adding "The same goes for white people." would have been fine, but he didn't add that.
Talking about how slavery is over and doesn't affect anyone... well you're half right. It is over, but AA's are still feeling it's effects. Why do you that that statistically they have less money and lower education? They were screwed over BIGTIME while white people had generations to accumulate family wealth, and generations to further their education which increased the likelihood that their children would have a better education and earn more money. Meanwhile, AA's weren't allowed to learn how to read. Don't tell me black people aren't suffering from the effects of slavery today. Why do you think that statistically they have more gangs/gang members and higher crime rates that white people? It's because they statistically have lower education and less money, which leads them to live in rough neighborhoods. There would be no inequality now if there wasn't then.
Our wealth was built on their labor. THAT"S what's not fair.
He should have said "You want me to vote for someone? Give me someone that's worth voting for." Even adding "The same goes for white people." would have been fine, but he didn't add that.
Talking about how slavery is over and doesn't affect anyone... well you're half right. It is over, but AA's are still feeling it's effects. Why do you that that statistically they have less money and lower education? They were screwed over BIGTIME while white people had generations to accumulate family wealth, and generations to further their education which increased the likelihood that their children would have a better education and earn more money. Meanwhile, AA's weren't allowed to learn how to read. Don't tell me black people aren't suffering from the effects of slavery today. Why do you think that statistically they have more gangs/gang members and higher crime rates that white people? It's because they statistically have lower education and less money, which leads them to live in rough neighborhoods. There would be no inequality now if there wasn't then.
Our wealth was built on their labor. THAT"S what's not fair.
JB_OrchidGuy
Cardiac Nurse
There you go with that same Mindset though Clint. The reality is if people expect me to vote for someone because he/she is black they have to be worth voting for because I look at their stance and not their color. Currently I plan on voting for the lessor of two evils that has a chance of winning.
I will agree that neither candidate satisfies me completely. Congress itself sucks ESPECIALLY since Pilosi took over.
CMM I can be an butt sometimes. Especially when I am trying to make a point. And also because I think that being PC has made a bunch in people who cannot take criticism very well. Because we are always trying not to hurt someones feelings when it does it is over exaggerated because they think they should never be offended. George Carlin Said it best.
I will agree that neither candidate satisfies me completely. Congress itself sucks ESPECIALLY since Pilosi took over.
CMM I can be an butt sometimes. Especially when I am trying to make a point. And also because I think that being PC has made a bunch in people who cannot take criticism very well. Because we are always trying not to hurt someones feelings when it does it is over exaggerated because they think they should never be offended. George Carlin Said it best.
My wealth was not built on their labor, I'm not saying past generations of my family werent affected by slavery in some way or another. But I dont believe that my past generations of my family have direct links to my personal success today. we have had public school systems for all races for a very long time, the literacy rate isn't differnet between african americans and whites is it? I'm fairly confident that todays generation all have equal shots so long as they put forth that effort,
if you can explain to me how african american kids and teens as of today are somehow prevented or hindered from attaining everything that todays white children and teens are I might better understand your point.
I understand how family wealth may come into play as far as getting into certain schools. but there are public schools everywhere however. now I understand that schools in certain areas may be providing less of an education or have more of a correlation with gang's and everything but that is not a result of slavery, that is a result of our countries inability to provide equal schooling everywhere within our borders... its not about providing government funding towards african americans due to slavery its about providing government funding to poor school systems to allow students the ability to recieve equal educations everywhere they may be.
ya know?
if you can explain to me how african american kids and teens as of today are somehow prevented or hindered from attaining everything that todays white children and teens are I might better understand your point.
I understand how family wealth may come into play as far as getting into certain schools. but there are public schools everywhere however. now I understand that schools in certain areas may be providing less of an education or have more of a correlation with gang's and everything but that is not a result of slavery, that is a result of our countries inability to provide equal schooling everywhere within our borders... its not about providing government funding towards african americans due to slavery its about providing government funding to poor school systems to allow students the ability to recieve equal educations everywhere they may be.
ya know?
Clint
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Not anyone's individual wealth. Not today. In general, a cumulative effect. Don't believe it? Do you really not thing that AA's are at a disadvantage because they typically have less money? Less money means a worse neighborhood, worse neighborhood means a more likely chance that they'll get involved with crime and stop caring. It perpetuates the cycle of disadvantage.
Let's thing of it this way. There's an apple on a tree, and a black person and white person can both reach for it. They're the same height. The difference is that the white person gets a stool to stand on because he inherited it from 200 years ago.
If you don't believe me, then YOU explain the vast socioeconomic differences between the two races. Please. I'm all ears to hear you tell me why this is so.
Let's thing of it this way. There's an apple on a tree, and a black person and white person can both reach for it. They're the same height. The difference is that the white person gets a stool to stand on because he inherited it from 200 years ago.
If you don't believe me, then YOU explain the vast socioeconomic differences between the two races. Please. I'm all ears to hear you tell me why this is so.
what is causing them to have less money...? do they have less oppertunity? do they have less schooling?
is it purely the neighborhood? becuase I dont think slavery is making that neighborhood bad, say it did at one point. shouldnt we have fixed that? do you think the way to fix that is by promoting purely the african american demographic and giving them funds? or is it fixing the neighborhood itself and creating a better school system?
gotta go unfortunately its cutting my post short.
Sorry bro's and gals
I think there are more social problems than anything, theres a psychological difference between the 2 demographics I think thats more of a problem right now.
maybe its all the rap music and video games and all the preconcieved idea's that people think african americans are going to fit into?
no I'm not saying that african americans only listen to rap... its just an example.
is it purely the neighborhood? becuase I dont think slavery is making that neighborhood bad, say it did at one point. shouldnt we have fixed that? do you think the way to fix that is by promoting purely the african american demographic and giving them funds? or is it fixing the neighborhood itself and creating a better school system?
gotta go unfortunately its cutting my post short.
Sorry bro's and gals
I think there are more social problems than anything, theres a psychological difference between the 2 demographics I think thats more of a problem right now.
maybe its all the rap music and video games and all the preconcieved idea's that people think african americans are going to fit into?
no I'm not saying that african americans only listen to rap... its just an example.
Clint
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They have less money because they have lower education. This is because of the disadvantages they are faced with stemming from slavery. They weren't allowed to read for a long time. They also had to attend second-class schools for a long time. Whites didn't.
Bad neighborhoods are a product of poverty. They didn't have hundreds of years to accumulate wealth and education. They are disadvantaged. We fix it by investing money into education programs, urban outreach programs, giving teachers raises, and pouring a LOT more money into the public school system for the benefit of EVERYONE, not just minorities. The dropout rate is disheartening. I would support a program that trades a year of military/peace corps service for a free public undergraduate education. I support affirmative action.
You never answers my question. You disagree with me, and that's fine, but you tell me why there is such a great statistical difference.
Bad neighborhoods are a product of poverty. They didn't have hundreds of years to accumulate wealth and education. They are disadvantaged. We fix it by investing money into education programs, urban outreach programs, giving teachers raises, and pouring a LOT more money into the public school system for the benefit of EVERYONE, not just minorities. The dropout rate is disheartening. I would support a program that trades a year of military/peace corps service for a free public undergraduate education. I support affirmative action.
You never answers my question. You disagree with me, and that's fine, but you tell me why there is such a great statistical difference.
