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Thread: It's going to be Historic either way!!

  1. #81
    rattler's Avatar
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    so you can kinda see why Palin peaks my interest a whole bunch? sound history of fiscal responsibility.....hasnt been a senator so it hasnt been ingrained in her to sit and try to ear mark funds for this or that pet project and spend tax payers money..........so yes while she isnt running for the head office this year its likely setting her up if McCain wins this year for a run at president in 2012......depending on what she does over the next 4 years should McCain be elected im really wondering if she could be a step in the right direction to start correcting the blackhole that is DC spending.....she has gone head to head with big oil, leaders of the repub party in her state and come out on top......alot of the social stuff such as gay rights(and she did go for giving partners equal benefits so she aint all bad) and stuff like that would fall more on congress than the president anyways but if she starts pushing for a balanced budget and sticks to her guns, how bad does it look on various senators if they dont go along?

    is Palin a magic bullet for all the issues? no...........but from what i have seen she could take a real shot at fixing some that are top on my list while not screwing up others that are(such as the second amendment)...........i can deal with alot of BS if a balanced budget can get through.......

    i aint looking at whats going to happen in 2009/2010.....im trying to look much farther out than that........
    cervid serial killer
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    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
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  2. #82
    Nooblet Botanicadenta's Avatar
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    First off, I agree, rattler, that I would like to see a reduction in the power the Federal gov't and more state-central legislation, such as the medical marijuana bit. I don't smoke( i did, i quit, i tried to pick it up again, not as satisfying as I remember, etc.) , but I do believe that the federal DEA busting in on, confiscatng the properties of, and shutting down business that has been legislated legitimately in individual states is wrong.

    However, the evidence is against the republicans in this regard. The best example I have is the FCC. It went from a small, almost unnecessary institution, and under the Bush administration, it has expanded tenfold, and now levys unrealistic fines over the smallest of infringements on network television and wouldn't mind doling out punishment on games such as GTA a bit. Undermining the ESRB and leading to the gov't raising our children on matters of 'civility'.

    Obama stated in his acceptance speech that the gov't does not replace a mother's care or a father's love and support. As someone who has worked in childcare, there is a lack of parental responsibility, and people registering kids in kindergarten who still wear diapers assuming that schools will potty train them.

    Now, I bring out the kids argument but it expands over a wide range of topics. This goes back to welfare and whatnot, but I'd rather avoid controversy and just sum it up by saying that depending on a gov't on a very small, individual level is dangerous. I'd rather have my gov't regulating trade and business effectively and responsibly. Reaganomics is an absolutely terrible economic theory. Trickle-down economics will never, ever happen, and I can't back people who believe in it. Think it isn't something to worry about? I can't hold down two corporate jobs with minimum wage and pay for rent and food with it. I doubt many here can unless they're in a managerial position. And don't confuse corporate with franchise, there's an enormous difference between the two and how much they take advantage of their workers.

    I want a gov't that's going to tell the Wal-Mart CEO to fork over his excess bonuses to that teachers who teach my kids(in the future, don't have any) can get paid decent wages, not the other way around where a man cruises around a yacht while he sets the price for my tank of gas to $70+ while Wal-mart is so hell bent and sending their execs to the billionair bracket that they pay their workers minimum wage and it takes them 2 days to fill the aforementioned gas tank.

    Someone called it cancerous capitalism. Don't get me wrong, Capitalism is a great idea, allowing anyone to have a chance at doing whatever they would like, but the way this gov't has failed to regulate American business is now leaving people to starve in the streets without homes. Every day we ship jobs to sweat shops in India and China, and not only are these people abused daily, but we take the job from someone who's going to be forced to sell their home and live in a box(okay, maybe not immediately moved to a box, but this happens! Go visit Houston, TX...).

    I don't care if he can fulfill the promise or not, but I'm voting for the guy who addresses this problem, as opposed to the guy who turns a bling eye to it while he offers Oil companies another tax break.

  3. #83
    rattler's Avatar
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    I want a gov't that's going to tell the Wal-Mart CEO to fork over his excess bonuses to that teachers who teach my kids(in the future, don't have any) can get paid decent wages, not the other way around where a man cruises around a yacht while he sets the price for my tank of gas to $70+ while Wal-mart is so hell bent and sending their execs to the billionair bracket that they pay their workers minimum wage and it takes them 2 days to fill the aforementioned gas tank.
    as far as walmart goes we have gotten exactly what we asked for.....products as cheap as we can get them regardless of quality or what businesses get shut down in the process.....you throwing a fit about walmart shows me you have no clue what the real issue is.........us as citizens........we want to live above our means, we want to have everything and work as lil as possible for it......ppl will shop at walmart to save a few bucks over the street down the store that has supplied decent paying jobs for years.....and they always will........

    as far as Obama how do you think all the social programs get paid for? raise taxes....and he wants to raise big business taxes......why dont you ask the upper midwest how well that has worked? you dont wind up taking money out of their pocket you take money out of yours cause they just raise prices.......or they pick up and move their company over seas and take jobs with them......look at the big 3 US auto makers.....all of them are saying you cant make money making vehicles in the US and moving more and more production overseas but the Asian companies are setting up shop in tax friendly states bringing in jobs and are happy as hell to do it.........as for oil companies......yes they are making huge profits......but they are also paying massive taxes.......they pay 3 times more every second in taxes than they take in in pure profit.......honestly if the government decided to do that to my newspapers i would just quit and find some other line of work.....
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  4. #84
    Nooblet Botanicadenta's Avatar
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    As for not knowing what I'm talking about, well, I've had first hand experience with those people and those like them. But I suppose Wal-mart is a seperate issue regarding public opinion and desires, perhaps we have brought wal-mart down upon ourselves, but those people are excessive with their internal rot.

    As for big business going over seas and ditching the US? That's exactly what I want! See, now you show where you have no idea what you're talking about, because what did we do before wal-mart? live in a vacuum? If Wal mart has a problem with their CEO's bonuses being cut, they can suck it and make way for small business again.

    Two ways to avoid business tax:

    Cut profits and sell quality products cheaply, thus having less to tax.(if wal-marts so cheap, I have to wonder why they're one of the most profitable businesses in America, Chinese slave labor anyone? But that's another argument)

    Establish small, local business. Day's work for a day's pay. No one I know feels compelled to own their own personal cruise ship. I wanna pay my rent, eat, and be entertained on my days off. I live in a small community that actually fought wal-mart and prevented them from establishing one of their cabals in the area. Why? We have a thriving private business community here. There's hardly any chain stores whatsoever(except for fast food in one town), they're small west-texas franchises at most, and no one is complaining! This way the guy down the street can open up a music store without having to worry with corporate bargain bin CD's killing his business. We have actual barber shops, not something that's been jammed into the architecture of a larger building. These people are happy because they can pursur whatever business they feel like running and employ people who get paid well and have medical coverage.

    I heard this argument earlier from an interview with a Texas senator, he used the exact same argument. You know what? there ISN'T supposed to be big business. there's supposed to be COMPETITION. That's the real basis for capitalism. Trusts should be busted, multinationals should be split, people should have a chance to start a clothing store that caters to their preferences and pay their bills with it, as opposed to greeting people in the cold and retiring with no pension in a retirement home.

    And republicans like you think this is okay.

    So maybe this is an issue of individual greed, as you imply. We let places like that proliferate and it's our own fault. Well I don't, I support small, local business and will never go back to the life of wandering isles with a lack of anything else to do. Those _______ burned me when I worked myself to the bone for them, and I can tell you, they and anyone that supports them care about no one for themselves, and I'll tell you what, if that's the way the US is, the good luck to the people who think that will last forever.

  5. #85

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    The big 3 US auto makers are not in trouble because of taxes as they get huge tax breaks from D.C. In fact years where they do not show a profit the state of Michigan actually pays them. What is killing the big 3 is that first their legacy costs are so high because of retired UAW workers and in particular their medical coverage. Retired UAW workers add over $1000 to the price of a big 3 auto. Think about what that does to them. Also people are losing faith in the quality of American made cars because the way they purchase their parts is who ever gives the lowest bid gets the contract regardless of the quality things are produced at. Japanese auto makers on the other hand do not use UAW workers so their demands are not ridiculous like the UAW and they do not have the burden of giving medical care that would make the Queen jealous. In essence the big 3 have shot themselves in the foot so dont blame taxes for that problem.

    I have to agree that Wal-Mart is our fault. Its capitalism at its best and worst at the same time.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  6. #86
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    Although I don't necessarily agree with teaching Creationism in the classroom, you made a very common blunder... and that is to tie it to Christianity. Creationism is an overall concept held by all different faiths... there are respected scientists from Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc. that ascribe to this concept.

    It's not about teaching a religion; it's about teaching an alternative view other than the one currently taught... which implies we all evolved by pure chance from primordial soup.

    This is the single biggest issue for me.

    First of all, you're wrong. ID doesn't specifically state the nature of the designer, but that's a slight-of-hand to slip the concept past the critics and into the classroom.

    According to ID, the designer could be anything - but if you look at the motives of the people who put forth the idea, you'll see it's all with the Christina agenda.

    see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy

    So what about the creation myths of non-Christians (Jews and Muslims, since they have the same basic myth as Christianity)? What about Hindus? Taoists? And all the other world religions? Should THEIR creation myths be taught as other "alternate theories?"

    I didn't think so.

    Second, ID does not belong in schools (well, at least not in science class) because it DOES NOT FOLLOW THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD. Period.

    If you wanted it taught in a religious studies course, I would have no problem with that, but KEEP IT OUT OF MY BIOLOGY CLASS ROOM!

    Whether or not it's correct is IRRELEVANT.

    **End Rant**

    Anyway, what about the pregnant 17 year old daughter who is "going to mary the father of the child?" Talk about a shot gun wedding.... Moral values, anyone? I mean, I don't disaprove of that activity for a 17 year old, but it just funny from a Republican candidate with the obvious religious affiliation.
    17 Nash Rd.
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  7. #87
    Capslock's Avatar
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    What's tragic about the Bristol Palin pregnancy is that her mother, our VP candidate, has decided to use her time and effort to fight against normal, mainstream sex education in favor of discredited and failed abstinence-only programs. One is left to wonder whether her daughter's pregnancy is an example of a failure of those programs or a success. Good taste prevents asking Palin that question.

    As far as the economy and Obama goes, his tax plans, which include reductions in taxes for the vast majority of Americans, should please the most fiscally responsible conservative. If there are massive social programs in his proposals, they're top secret as they have never been mentioned. For at least 40 years, Democrats have been more fiscally conservative than tax-break-and-spend Republicans who time after time create record budget deficits. The Republicans, and to a lesser degree the Dems, have been hijacked by a proto-fascist movement best described as corporatism. They push for de-regulation (resulting in our financial mess, habitat destruction, pollution, and outright fraud), for tax breaks for the largest corporations, for the ability to off-shore with impunity, and generally for policies that hurt the average worker and benefit only the top shareholders. This is borne out by the numbers - the average American has lost money under Bush, while the rich are significantly richer.

    Corporatism also exhibits disdain for things like Constitutional rights. The right to free speech, to not be arbitrarily searched, and to a measure of human dignity has resulted in millions of Americans peeing in cups to prove their innocence after passing through metal detectors. Corporatists want obedient, silent workers. The enemy isn't the Republican or the Democrat - it's the Corporatist, who have bought their way into power through our inane campaign financing system (the victor is almost always the candidate that spends the most.) This is why when good conservatives like rattler and I argue, we usually end up with (mostly) fundamental agreement. Unfortunately, in my opinion, we've been pitted against each other to distract from the real movement that's taken over. When our armies are privatized, our national guard duties privatized, and fraud-laden groups like blackwater patrol our streets with heavily armed thugs, and nation-building in the middle east run by Halliburton is screwing up our international reputation, you know the train has gone off the rails.

    Capslock

    PS: Prediction: within 14 days, Palin is off the ticket.
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  8. #88
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capslock View Post
    If there are massive social programs in his proposals, they're top secret as they have never been mentioned.

    You're kidding right?

    quotes from Obama's acceptance speech last week:


    I will cut taxes-- cut taxes-- for 95% of all working families. Because in an economy like this, the last thing we should do is raise taxes on the middle-class....


    And I'll invest 150 billion dollars over the next decade in affordable, renewable sources of energy-- wind power and solar power and the next generation of biofuels....

    I'll invest in early childhood education.

    I'll recruit an army of new teachers, and pay them higher salaries and give them more support....

    Now is the time to finally keep the promise of affordable, accessible health care for every single American. If you have health care, my plan will lower your premiums. If you don't, you'll be able to get the same kind of coverage that members of Congress give themselves....

    Now is the time to help families with paid sick days and better family leave....


    Obama wants to cut taxes AND increase spending..
    good luck with that..

    typical (for all politicians, im sure McCains acceptance speech will be the same)
    telling the people EVERYTHING they want to hear..
    even if some things flatly contridict others..
    and even if its impossible..

    oh well..its nothing new.
    its really funny (and sad) that so many people believe the lies though..


    Scot

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