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Thread: It's going to be Historic either way!!

  1. #137
    Alien1099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattler_mt View Post
    fumbled? how in the hell do you figure?.....................even most of the media outlets that support Obama said she did a damn fine job......her teleprompter malfunctioned and she didnt miss a beat cause she KNEW her speech....Obama has proven he cant do that........
    Uhhh breathalyzer! Err Inhilater.

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  2. #138
    rattler's Avatar
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    dont mind if creationism is taught so long as evolution gets equal playing time.....that would increase critical thinking....i CAN handle that........

    as for the sex ed.....dont actually care if its taught in school........the schools do soooooooooooooooo well(insert dripping sarcasm here) with drug education......cant say i believe sex ed in schools does much better......but as i said i dont believe its the schools job to teach it, its the parents job anyway........
    cervid serial killer
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    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
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  3. #139
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schloaty View Post
    Yes, we differ on the topic of sex ed. Do you disagree that it's a good idea for them to educated in both places? One re-enforces the other. Maybe SOMETHING will stick even in the stubborn teen head....
    I agree with Rattler that it should be the parents responsibility to educate their child on sex, and how they believe it should be educated.

    Quote Originally Posted by schloaty View Post
    As for the rest, I agree 100% on the no child left behind stuff. But I find it ironic that you beleive in survival of the fittest, yet want a woman in office who wants creationism taught in biology!
    Maybe we wouldn't have all these ID vs Evolution arguments if evolution wasn't rammed down as 100% absolute truth like it is today.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  4. #140
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    ID is a travesty - a simultaneous perversion of religion and science.

    As for evolution, it's taught in the same way as plate tectonics and any number of other scientific "facts". It's the theory that best explains what is observed. People are continually refining it and current thought in evolution is way beyond what was imagined in the 19th Century. Occasionally there's a revolution (I refuse to say paradigm shift (Oh crap, I just said it)) and a science jumps to a new position. I got into geology too late to experience the plate tectonics revolution, but many of my professors and other geologists I've known were there for it and it inspired a lot of people and cleared some dead wood too.

    As for sex ed, studies show it helps reduce unintended pregnancy and STD transmission. Since society is better with less of those things, society is better off with sex ed.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  5. #141
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    As for sex ed, studies show it helps reduce unintended pregnancy and STD transmission. Since society is better with less of those things, society is better off with sex ed.
    why is it so ineffective than? it is taught in schools here in the 5th grade.....not abstinence programs, full blown sex ed classes like you and schoalty suggest yet we still have high teen birth rates here? it aint any more effective than any of the DARE type programs are on drug abuse amoung teenagers.......are they maybe, might be effective on some kids? sure but not enough that i view it to be mandatory.....if the school wants to pesent anastinace program, fine by me.....full out sex ed....fine by me.....no sex ed or abstinance class....fine by me...........i dont care if they do one, both or neither.....think its the parents job to teach the kids.......if the parents cant get through to them the school likely aint either....

    as fare as ID cant see anything wrong with presenting the kids with both.......any of them with half a brain will figure out which is more likely.......and those that dont understand it likely have no real grasp on how evolution works when they graduate high school anyway.....dont see the harm in presenting both......the school drug abuse program i went through was so far off base as to be comical with the holes and half truths in its material.....
    cervid serial killer
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    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
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  6. #142
    swords's Avatar
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    Teaching creationism in a mythology class with all the other creation myths is fine I'm a connisour of religions and mythology they all interest me on an intellectual & psychological level. But creation myths are not science by any stretch of the imagination. Simply because more people worship the bible and it's version of events today doesn't make the christian creation myth any more viable than the thousands of others passed down through history. I'll be willing to bet most all of you are "athiests" when it comes to Zeus or Ahriman... There are no scientific experiments which can support any of the creation myths unlike evolution which can be explained in part with experimentation and will likely continue to advance further if scientific research is not hindered by religious zealots.

    Sex ed is valuble in schools because many parents today simply aren't June and Ward Cleaver who have oodles of time to deal with their kids, or even want to. Like it or not many peole today are still embarrassed by sex and aren't able to discuss these things with their kids. I appalud any teacher that can teach sex ed infront of class of giggling kids. Add to that many parents are confused and uneducated themselves so having them teach their kids isn't any grand plan either.They should get some decent info somewhere. It might be like asking my ancient grandfather teach me quantum physics when he can barely get along balancing his checkbook. "Abstinence only" ideal is a pipe dream that simply needs to go away in a progressing modern society. Hiding sex in a fog of obscurity is simple suicide. Simply saying "Don't screw, don't screw it'll blow your legs off!" over and over isn't going to help anything at all. At least if they had a decent education perhaps STDs could go down.

    Don't even let me get started on the misinformation campaign that is DARE...

  7. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by swords View Post
    Teaching creationism in a mythology class with all the other creation myths is fine but creation myths are not science by any stretch of the imagination. Simply because more people worship the bible today doesn't make the christian creation myth any more viable than the thousands of others passed down through history. There are no scientific experiments which can support any creation myth unlike evolution which can be explained in part with experimentation and will likely continue to advance further if scientific research is not hindered by religious zealots.
    It takes faith in God to accept the Bible as truth. Just as it takes faith in science to accept evolution as truth. Neither can be proved absolutely true without accepting it by faith. The problem with the way it's taught are the teachers attitudes. Instead of saying "this is what science thinks" they say "this is how it went down". There's a big difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by swords View Post
    Sex ed is valuble in schools because many parents today aren't June and Ward Cleaver who have oodles of time to deal with their kids. Many parents are confused and uneducated so having them teach their kids isn't any grand plan either. Like having my ancient hick grandfather teach me quantum physics... "Abstinence only" ideal is a pipe dream that needs to go away. Saying "Don't screw, don't screw it'll blow your legs off!" over and over isn't going to help anything at all. At least if they had a decent education perhaps STDs could go down.

    Don't even let me get started on the misinformation campaign that is DARE...
    Oodles of time to deal with their kids? On something as important as this? I think the problem is people rely on public education and government too much to do everything for them.

    There is nothing wrong with abstinence or teaching it. What is wrong with encouraging people to wait until they are married before they have sex? Not only will STDs go down, but the number of unwanted births and abortions will go down as well. Sure not everyone may be able to heed to abstinence, but contraceptives doesn't fix anything. In fact contraceptives give people the wrong idea, such as they are invulnerable because they are using them, which is false. Condoms break, birth control pills have many facets such as taking it consistently each day at the same time, and last but not least contraceptives encourage sexual activity without guaranteeing there will be contraceptives left to use. When Johnny runs out of condoms and gets lucky what do you think he's gonna do?
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  8. #144
    swords's Avatar
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    No creation myth of any religion can be proven with any form of scientific testing. Evolution while it still has a few unanswered questions has physical evidence you can visit a museum and touch. Experiments have been performed and are now being performed which can prove evolutionary theories. How Humans Evolved by R. Boyd and J. Silk is a large but easy to understand introductory text to start with if you are new to the study of genetics and evolution. We get closer each year to completing the picture as long as studies are allowed to continue. I welcome all advances in science, longevity research, evolution, genetic enhancement, cloning... Knowledge is power. Power to control how we evolve from here on out is in our very hands.

    Teaching Abstinence is fine as a facet of sex ed but to start it and end it at that is plainly dangerous and that is what those kind of programs are about "Abstinence Only" no other mention of other safeguards, etc.. No sex ed class I was ever in told us that contraceptives were effective all the time. Infact, what was drilled into us was that abstinence was he only way to for sure not pick up anything. That did not stop very many kids from humping like rabbits. The class field trip to the STD clinic was much more of an eye opener for many however.

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