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Thread: It's going to be Historic either way!!

  1. #17
    Nepenthusiast's Avatar
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    Thanks for that Adnedarn, I too stand corrected. That really makes abortion a much more complex issue when the chances of the baby having the disorder or not aren't 100% determined.

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    Rattler, I don't think Obama's plans will increase taxes for middle class citizens very much. I think he's made it clear that the taxes will be raised primarily on huge componies and the wealthy (wealthy meaning the top 5% of wage earners). Basically he'll cutt back Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy. According to his people it should lower taxes for 95% of people.
    I don't like McCain, but I love his logo. It looks like some sort of choclate bar wrapper or something.
    have you actually looked at his probosals? my taxes are going to go up significantly and my wife and i make under $100,000 per year.........not to mention you dont tax the hell out of big businesses that is stupid....they send more jobs out of the country then.........not to mention taxing the oil companies to give everyone a "rebate" the stupidest thing i have ever heard......US oil companies already pay over 3 times what their clear profit is in taxes to the feds and states........i swear some of you dont know what it is like to actually run and own a freaking business.....even a small one.......you wouldnt believe what we pay in taxes even as a lil guy.......
    cervid serial killer
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  3. #19
    Capslock's Avatar
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    Rattler, it's just crazy to say that Palin has more experience than Obama. Just nuts.

    He's excelled and performed at every level. From being President of the Harvard Law Review to graduating magna cum laude from Harvard, his education accomplishments vastly outstrip Palin's bachelors degree in journalism from the University of Idaho.

    Obama has written several well-received books, worked as a teacher of Constitutional law at the University of Chicago, led drives to increase voter registration, and founded and served on the board of directors of several foundations and was an active State legislator in ethics reform. In the Senate, he's on the Foreign Relations, Environment and Public Works and Veterans' Affairs committes.

    Palin was a sports reporter and fisherman before joining the city council and becoming mayor of her town of 9500. I applaud her ethics reform as governor - her best achievements to date. They have made her wildly popular in a state that is laden with corruption.

    Finally, Obama will not raise your taxes. He will lower them unless you're very rich, and the very rich have had massive tax cuts under Bush, transferring the burden to the middle class. This is part of why the average American makes $2K less per year under Bush than they did under Clinton. The average American has done worse under the fiscal policies of the Bush administration, policies that McCain vows to continue.

    I do know how to run a business - have done so for 18 years. I also know how corporations dodge taxes, offshore jobs and finances to dodge taxes, and I know Obama seeks to close those loopholes, while McCain still touts the failed and disastrous policy of letting corporations run wild like they have under Bush. Corporatism is the single greatest threat to our way of life in the USA, and the most compelling reason why I will not support a Republican until they come out from under the thumbs of the most evil and exploitative corporations on the planet.

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  4. #20
    Lover of Mountains nightsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRFxtreme View Post
    At the risk of sparking debate, I don't necessarily see allowing a mass of cells to develop into a human being afflicted with down syndrome as a positive.
    Yikes - I'm not even going to touch this one...Needless to say I disagree 100%.

  5. #21
    Admin- I'm growing CPs in the Desert of Tucson, Az. adnedarn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nepenthusiast View Post
    Thanks for that Adnedarn, I too stand corrected. That really makes abortion a much more complex issue when the chances of the baby having the disorder or not aren't 100% determined.
    Nepenthusiast, a little more information on the abortion subject.... The triple screen was the first indication that there may be a problem. And this test is offered at about 4 months into the pregnancy. So if you opt for it, by about 4.5m into the pregnancy is when you find out the first indication that there may be a problem. Keeping that in mind, I think "late term abortion" is defined as 14-20weeks... So by the time parents know there might be a problem, it is generally already considered late term.... Definitely something to keep in mind when thinking about abortion as simply a Yes/No answer, it's quite a bit more complex than that. Not saying if there were a test that could say YES your kid has down syndrome, would mean he/she should be aborted IMHO.
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  6. #22
    "Oh, now he's a philosophizer" Baylorguy's Avatar
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    Although I don't necessarily agree with teaching Creationism in the classroom, you made a very common blunder... and that is to tie it to Christianity. Creationism is an overall concept held by all different faiths... there are respected scientists from Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc. that ascribe to this concept.

    It's not about teaching a religion; it's about teaching an alternative view other than the one currently taught... which implies we all evolved by pure chance from primordial soup.




    Quote Originally Posted by Nepenthusiast View Post

    Rattler, I don't think Obama's plans will increase taxes for middle class citizens very much. I think he's made it clear that the taxes will be raised primarily on huge componies and the wealthy (wealthy meaning the top 5% of wage earners). Basically he'll cutt back Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy. According to his people it should lower taxes for 95% of people.
    I don't like McCain, but I love his logo. It looks like some sort of choclate bar wrapper or something.
    What really makes me excited the most is Obama's college community service thing...if you volunteer for helping fight poverty, literacy, or participate in community service you get tax breaks that make it easiar to go to college. I'm sure you already know that but I think thats such a good idea...our country would get so much more done long term if we just gave more people the oppurtunity to get an affordable college education and hence give them a chance in life. Plus it would encourage people to help the country.
    Capslock said it already so I won't bother repeating why I don't like Palin. And gay marriage is NOT exactely a minor issue. And I think I'll die if my little brothers have to learn about Christianity in the science class room.

  7. #23
    War. War never changes. Est's Avatar
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    oh did i mention she is a hottie?
    I think she is a hottie too
    And then I see on CNN
    McCain taps Alaska Gov. Palin as vice president pick
    which on my screen in a minimized window reads "McCain taps Alaskan Gov..."

    Am I the only one who finds the wording... curious?



    Also:
    here are respected scientists from Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc. that ascribe to this concept [creationism].
    WOW! This thread is just FULL of surprises! :chuckle:
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  8. #24
    rattler's Avatar
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    This is part of why the average American makes $2K less per year under Bush than they did under Clinton.
    taxes for us as a small buisiness have been better for us under Bush than under Clinton....and we have under $100,000 a year in payroll.......also we were headed for a resession when Bush took over the reigns....Clintons policies were already sending us there....things were starting to tank even before 9-11....hell we arent actually going to feel the majority of what Bush has done for awhile yet.....better or worse......

    Hitler wrote a successful book WTF has that got to do with anything.....

    Obama has stated he is going after the oil companies and hit them with a windfall tax and give all tax payers a grand....you mean to tell me as someone who runs a business you think this is a good idea? you think gas is high now wait till that gets tried, we will see gas at $6 a gallon and higher.......why? cause you destablize the US's free market....all the sudden the government gets to tell you just how much profit your allowed to make......as a business owner that busts his *** for every dime i make i find something very wrong with even the idea of that........the US oil companies are a drop in the bucket in the world market place they dont have much say in global prices when governments like Saudi Arabia, Venezuala are playing the market with many times Exxons volume......

    Obama wants more social programs and the only way to do that is to fund them with tax dollars.....how in the hell do you make more programs without raising taxes?

    cant like a senator that votes "present" as often as he votes "yes" or "no".......

    ill take Palin's issues over Obama's cry that he will bring "change" but doesnt tell us HOW he is going to do it.....Hitler did the same damn thing in 1930's Germany.......now no im not comparing Obama to Hitler........just saying i would rather have a known quantity than an unknown......everytime someone has has tried to nail down exactly what Obama means with change he skirts the issue or his supporters cry foul and pull the race card.....this is BS.........
    cervid serial killer
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