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Thread: It's going to be Historic either way!!

  1. #49
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    It's hard to jump on board this thread when it has already taken off!

    Quote Originally Posted by obregon562 View Post
    That is EXACTLY how i feel! I think she is just a cheap attempt to pick up hilary and Alaskan voter.
    While I do not necessarily consider it a cheap attempt, I do empathize with the sentament. I think it is a risky move, and I do think it is motivated by trying to pick up some of the democratic voters that are still angry over Hilary not being the nominee. I think it is risky, and I do not think it will pay off. I believe that the democratic ticket has much more overall "street cred" than the republican ticket; and I definitely do not think that she has more "experience" than Senator Obama.

    The point about picking up Alaskan voters is a moot point, in my opinion; because Biden has Delaware (3 electoral votes) and Palin has Alaska (also 3 electoral votes) so it is pretty much a wash. Of course, I don't know what Alaskans typically vote, so I suppose if it was traditionally a republican state, it could be an extra three votes; but that is only if Alaskans are voting based on the VP spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by rattler_mt View Post
    i like that Palin is short on DC experiance....means she aint been touched by its back room politics......
    I agree with your point about being an outsider; but, I don't think that is really going to help when she is trying to get work done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nepenthusiast View Post
    What really makes me excited the most is Obama's college community service thing...
    I agree with this proposal 10 times over. This could make the difference between a good society and a great society. Students that perform community service with relation to higher education have higher college satisfaction, higher engagement, and a plethora of other indicators that all point to higher four year graduation rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by rattler_mt View Post
    Obama wants more social programs and the only way to do that is to fund them with tax dollars.....how in the hell do you make more programs without raising taxes?
    He did say that he would look through program list and cut the ones that aren't working, retool the ones that could work better and more efficiently. Creating new programs does not always mean raising taxes. If something isn't working, it needs to be cut (I think we can all agree on that). The main responsibility with social programs is fiscal responsibility.

    On a personal note, I just have to say, when I look to a leader, I look for someone who is going to inspire me. The president should inspire the American people to want to do more for themselves and do more for the people around themselves. The job of the president isn't to appeal to the lowest common denominator; it is to help the population collectively raise it.

    I look forward to the future, and recognize that life isn't easy. I recognize that in order for things to get better, everyone has to make sacrifices and dig in. Whatever president we have isn't going to return life back to easy street; but rather help us understand and provide opportunities for everyone to better himself or herself. Isn't that the American Dream?

    Many years ago, there was a man from the former Persian (now Iran) that donated a total of 8 million dollars to build two scholarship halls at my former university. During the ribbon cutting of the first building, he said something along the lines of: "You can go anywhere in the world and you'll never hear about the German Dream, the French Dream, the Chinese Dream, or any other Dream. All you ever hear about is the American Dream. I came to this country with my brother, five dollars, and a bag full of dreams." To achieve the American Dream, you need hard work, help from others, and inspiration.

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  2. #50
    Two flies one pitcher. Minus the crap eating. obregon562's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Capslock
    I don't find any of those quotes in the least bit troubling. The first ones are all just relating his thoughts and journey as a young person, both things he regrets and things he's proud of. It seems a bit disingenuous to pluck them out without context like that.

    The last one isn't the least bit damning. I'm with him on it 100%. The American ideal is: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Among these rights is freedom of religion. Should the political winds shift in an ugly direction, and Muslims become deprived of this right, on that day I also will stand with the Muslims. I'd hope you would too, as it's the American thing to do.

    Capslock
    Well said.

    This brings me to what my biggest problem with McCain is, and that is his support of further limiting civil liberties. This is a classic move from any group that wants to seize power. Study the history of fascism and you will see exactly what I mean. This very idea violates what our founding fathers believed. Those of you who are scared by Muslims only prove your own ignorance.

    As for creationism, its not science, period. It doesn't belong in a science class room. End of discussion. If you want to teach any creation stories have a mythology class, but make sure you include all of them not just the traditions of Abraham. Dont forget the karmic wheel, The Norse creation myths, Ancient Greek creation myth, etc...
    Very, very well said! If something awful does happen, our country needs to put aside the blatent racism we apparetnly still have and stand up for what our country truly is. The Land of the Free. Muslims are not an evil race. Some fo my best freinds are muslim, and i cannot stand the way people look at them. They are not terrorists. They are normal, God-loving people. If anything they love god more than the bible-thumping biggots who hate them most. I do not see them praying to god 7 times a day.

    Creationalism has ABSOLUTELY no place in a public classroom. If you believe fairy tales, go to private Catholic/Christin/Other Religion schools and waste your money there. We cannot teach children something we cannot prove.

    Those completely shameful emails are nothing more than plain rascism. They are all completely distorted, as Tropics beautifuly demostrated, and make me hate that i actually live in a country with people this stupid and down right racist.
    "It's easy to rip on cops, when you aren't the one needing saving"

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  3. #51
    Nepenthusiast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xvart View Post
    He did say that he would look through program list and cut the ones that aren't working, retool the ones that could work better and more efficiently. Creating new programs does not always mean raising taxes. If something isn't working, it needs to be cut (I think we can all agree on that). The main responsibility with social programs is fiscal responsibility.

    On a personal note, I just have to say, when I look to a leader, I look for someone who is going to inspire me. The president should inspire the American people to want to do more for themselves and do more for the people around themselves. The job of the president isn't to appeal to the lowest common denominator; it is to help the population collectively raise it.

    I look forward to the future, and recognize that life isn't easy. I recognize that in order for things to get better, everyone has to make sacrifices and dig in. Whatever president we have isn't going to return life back to easy street; but rather help us understand and provide opportunities for everyone to better himself or herself. Isn't that the American Dream?

    Many years ago, there was a man from the former Persian (now Iran) that donated a total of 8 million dollars to build two scholarship halls at my former university. During the ribbon cutting of the first building, he said something along the lines of: "You can go anywhere in the world and you'll never hear about the German Dream, the French Dream, the Chinese Dream, or any other Dream. All you ever hear about is the American Dream. I came to this country with my brother, five dollars, and a bag full of dreams." To achieve the American Dream, you need hard work, help from others, and inspiration.

    xvart.
    Xvart how about you run for president. If Sarah Palin can be VP why aren't we all running for office. j/k.

  4. #52
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    Well, I didn't like obama before I received that email. So its all good. My dislike of him is not because he is black. My dislike for him is because of what he stands for. He has no plans and cannot do what he is claiming he can do. All the power is in congress and there is NO president who will do anything in government alone.

    I'm sorry but I don't know how Obama plans to make us energy independent without drilling and making more refineries to get us through until the alternative energy is more readily available. I also think he is going to make the price of things go up even higher if he starts taxing businesses even more. They are jsut going to pass on the taxes to the consumer.
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  5. #53
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Putting whether or not Palin is experienced aside, from a political PR standpoint, I think she is a terrible choice for McCain. Her youth only undercuts his age and health concerns. All anyone is talking about now is "what if something happens to John McCain?" The age thing was made big by the media for a couple days, but nobody on the democratic spin horse made an issue out of it (that I am aware of) and it didn't go anywhere. Now McCain is putting it front and center, because that is all people are talking about (including his base). The problems this is causing are not even relevant to Palin, with the exception of the fact that she is on the ticket. They aren't talking about her, they are focusing on him and an issue that had been swept under the rug quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nepenthusiast View Post
    Xvart how about you run for president. If Sarah Palin can be VP why aren't we all running for office. j/k.
    Heh. Thanks. I think with all the choices I've made (both wise and poor) and learned from maybe I'm overqualified to represent the general population!

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  6. #54
    allegedhuman's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who when they saw the video of her and McCain when she was announced as his running mate think…”What the heck is Tina Fey doing up there?”

    I bet SNL is kicking itself for not having Tina Fey on cast anymore to play Sarah Palin, she wouldn’t even need much in the way of costumes to play the part since they already look eerily similar to me already.

    In my opinion I believe the choice of Sarah Palin as his running mate was mainly based on McCain’s need to be more competitive against Obama and a young woman on his ticket would help offset the perception of him as just another ol’ white guy. Having a woman on his ticket to go against Obama, plus to pick up democratic voters bitter over Hilary not getting the democrat nomination. I know those are not the official reasons behind McCain’s choice for his VP but that is just my immediate view on the choice.

    Plus, I immediately cringe when someone said she is pro teaching creationism in school and anti equal rights for gays and lesbians. If you want to teach creationism, do it in an elective class based on religious beliefs, not in a science classroom. I want science with real science, not religion re-cast as a pseudo-science. Where would scientific progress be if pseudo-sciences were still accepted as valid science today? The whole point of science is testability. Sure while a lot of people believe in creationism how are you to test it? It is something you can neither prove nor disprove, which is the whole point of faith. If you want creationism taught as a science then that means you should drop faith in favor of facts and then what are you left with when religion is no longer based on faith?

    Finally I think there should never be a question of equal rights, for anyone, Period.

    I did not vote for George Bush, and will not vote for McCain either, even with a woman on his ticket to try to appeal to my own female solidarity. I would love a female in office, but only if her beliefs and policies would actually be best for the country. Sure she is only VP but presidents have died naturally and of malicious methods in office before and to be blunt…McCain ain’t no spring chick.

  7. #55
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegedhuman View Post
    In my opinion I believe the choice of Sarah Palin as his running mate was mainly based on McCain’s need to be more competitive against Obama and a young woman on his ticket would help offset the perception of him as just another ol’ white guy.
    But aren't there several "better" female candidates out there that he could have (and should have) picked? Of course, this is only if he picked her for that reason only (which I don't believe; but, I do believe it was a major contributor).

    Quote Originally Posted by allegedhuman View Post
    I bet SNL is kicking itself for not having Tina Fey on cast anymore to play Sarah Palin, she wouldn’t even need much in the way of costumes to play the part since they already look eerily similar to me already.
    Haha. Now that you mention it there is a striking resemblance.

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

  8. #56
    Captain Hamata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegedhuman View Post
    Am I the only one who when they saw the video of her and McCain when she was announced as his running mate think…”What the heck is Tina Fey doing up there?”
    I totally agree.


    Quote Originally Posted by allegedhuman View Post
    Plus, I immediately cringe when someone said she is pro teaching creationism in school
    While they're at it, they should probably teach alchemy in place of chemistry.
    Presents are the best way to show someone how much you care. It is like this tangible thing that you can point to and say 'Hey man, I love you this many dollars worth. -Michael Scott, The Office

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