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What are the distinguishing characteristics....
- Thread starter jimscott
- Start date
haha I can't believe you just asked this question...
the amount of crazy disputed turmoil that would ensue I would think might destroy the world
I could be wrong... TF does have some down to earth people.
I think the real problem with this question is that you WILL get different opinions becuase the 3 different things are just a matter of opinion and labeling, of which either the group doesn't actually want, or is ferociously against being labeled incorrectly, even without a great definition of what it is to be a part of that label...
now generally speaking these are types of music genres, and the crowd that follows that genre. so easier than dissecting the groups of people since their are too many sub catagories to include.. just look at the differences in the music.
I just wikipedia'd this to see if I could quote them on this and I already disagree with what they've put in there... maybe I'm wrong and confused?
eitherway I grew up very very involved in the punk culture in kansas city, played bass for a punk band and got into trouble listened to the old school punk music, i.e. the circle jerks, blackflag, fugazi,FEAR, minor threat, bad brains, electric frankenstien, DRI, the list goes on...some of you "older" people may have heard of some of those guys there not to common to be seen amongst the crowds today...
oh but I can tell you that "Goth" and "emo" are subcategories of Punk. so now all the "punk" kids have to call themselves Oldschool Punk just becuase theres too many new divisions haha
'll be interested to see what responses you get out of this...
let the fun begin...
the amount of crazy disputed turmoil that would ensue I would think might destroy the world
I could be wrong... TF does have some down to earth people.
I think the real problem with this question is that you WILL get different opinions becuase the 3 different things are just a matter of opinion and labeling, of which either the group doesn't actually want, or is ferociously against being labeled incorrectly, even without a great definition of what it is to be a part of that label...
now generally speaking these are types of music genres, and the crowd that follows that genre. so easier than dissecting the groups of people since their are too many sub catagories to include.. just look at the differences in the music.
I just wikipedia'd this to see if I could quote them on this and I already disagree with what they've put in there... maybe I'm wrong and confused?
eitherway I grew up very very involved in the punk culture in kansas city, played bass for a punk band and got into trouble listened to the old school punk music, i.e. the circle jerks, blackflag, fugazi,FEAR, minor threat, bad brains, electric frankenstien, DRI, the list goes on...some of you "older" people may have heard of some of those guys there not to common to be seen amongst the crowds today...
oh but I can tell you that "Goth" and "emo" are subcategories of Punk. so now all the "punk" kids have to call themselves Oldschool Punk just becuase theres too many new divisions haha
'll be interested to see what responses you get out of this...
let the fun begin...
It can describe music, although often just social groups in school or styles.
Goths are people who tend to write depressing poetry and have negative views on the world, often wearing black clothing and eye liner. A motif of death is often symbolized with them.
People who are "punk" often have crazy hair (dyed, styled, etc.) and clothing (often tight pants) and listen to loud screaming music.
Emo (short for emotional) people are similar to goths (and often used to describe them nowadays) but are usually "drama queens" and really don't know what they want in life. Goths usually do. Often characterized by "cutting" and sitting alone in a corner. Also often have tight pants.
For music:
Gothic music is sort of dark and scary, dunno really much about it.
Punk is just really friggin crazy, sort of like rock and roll or metal or stuff like that.
And emo music is just depressing music that makes you feel sad.
-Ben
Goths are people who tend to write depressing poetry and have negative views on the world, often wearing black clothing and eye liner. A motif of death is often symbolized with them.
People who are "punk" often have crazy hair (dyed, styled, etc.) and clothing (often tight pants) and listen to loud screaming music.
Emo (short for emotional) people are similar to goths (and often used to describe them nowadays) but are usually "drama queens" and really don't know what they want in life. Goths usually do. Often characterized by "cutting" and sitting alone in a corner. Also often have tight pants.
For music:
Gothic music is sort of dark and scary, dunno really much about it.
Punk is just really friggin crazy, sort of like rock and roll or metal or stuff like that.
And emo music is just depressing music that makes you feel sad.
-Ben
Goth: Sad at the world because they think the world is sad.
Punk: Mad at the world because they think the world is mad.
Emo: Same as goths, just with less sadness and more madness.
Oh, and all are crazy. They also like to use these labels as excuses for acting out, "voicing themselves" and inflivting harm unto themselves and others.
I must admit that I myself am a little bit punk, because I think that the world is upside-down, and it makes me a little mad, in both ways. 
:devil: 
Plus I like the "look."
So, do what you want with those definitions. There are many ways they can be interpreted.
Punk: Mad at the world because they think the world is mad.
Emo: Same as goths, just with less sadness and more madness.
Oh, and all are crazy. They also like to use these labels as excuses for acting out, "voicing themselves" and inflivting harm unto themselves and others.
I must admit that I myself am a little bit punk, because I think that the world is upside-down, and it makes me a little mad, in both ways.
:devil: Plus I like the "look." So, do what you want with those definitions. There are many ways they can be interpreted.
I think it all comes down to the tight pants.
I've been punk & metal for who knows how long (21 years at least if you start counting when i got my 18" hair cut into a mohawk at age 12). I listen to metal music most of the time but I identify more with punks, most metal guys are just into beer and women and don't give two hoots about much else. Punks I grew up with we all educated ourselves on racism, sexism, homophobia, government, and all the stuff that makes us "evil" cos we fight/speak against it. We didn't believe our school was any good especially since these kinds of ideas were being propagated by the people in and attending our school. We read our own book selections, wrote/printed our own mags, did a lot of political activity, even though we were in a small town we made a little scene with us and the neighboring towns punks/motivated metallers. The anarcho-punks in Minneapolis called us the "Country Punks: leaping corn fields in a single bound" when we went to AYF meetings and all that to chide us for living out here. But in the end I'm the only hold out who never left the small town but still hold my crazy rather relativist views.
MN had a large goth/darkwave scene especially "back in the day" before Hot Topics made mall-goth popular. The classics were bands like: Alien Sex Fiend, Bauhaus, Christian Death, Current 93, Death in June and London After Midnight among others. Original Goths were basically rich kid punks who got into heroin and black magic/occult topics - usually in a rather silly and insincere fashion with no real knowledge of magical theory and practice. Also, since many goths are rich kids (they can afford the "H") they usually hold aristocratic & republican views quite at odds with the punk scene.
Emos are basically as stated, just emotional car crashes. Cases self-extracted from the above scenes, often by excessive use of "X" and bound for the psyche ward until their Seratonin levels even out. Emo's listen to basically the same music as the other two with an emphasis on the more depressive bands.
But these are my experiences with the old guards of the scene, I can't make any statement about what the Hot Topic punks, goths & emos of today are like. They always look at me like I'm a Narc or a Pedophile when I go in there to buy a classic metal tee shirt... and I'm neither I'm just an old fart punk!
I've been punk & metal for who knows how long (21 years at least if you start counting when i got my 18" hair cut into a mohawk at age 12). I listen to metal music most of the time but I identify more with punks, most metal guys are just into beer and women and don't give two hoots about much else. Punks I grew up with we all educated ourselves on racism, sexism, homophobia, government, and all the stuff that makes us "evil" cos we fight/speak against it. We didn't believe our school was any good especially since these kinds of ideas were being propagated by the people in and attending our school. We read our own book selections, wrote/printed our own mags, did a lot of political activity, even though we were in a small town we made a little scene with us and the neighboring towns punks/motivated metallers. The anarcho-punks in Minneapolis called us the "Country Punks: leaping corn fields in a single bound" when we went to AYF meetings and all that to chide us for living out here. But in the end I'm the only hold out who never left the small town but still hold my crazy rather relativist views.
MN had a large goth/darkwave scene especially "back in the day" before Hot Topics made mall-goth popular. The classics were bands like: Alien Sex Fiend, Bauhaus, Christian Death, Current 93, Death in June and London After Midnight among others. Original Goths were basically rich kid punks who got into heroin and black magic/occult topics - usually in a rather silly and insincere fashion with no real knowledge of magical theory and practice. Also, since many goths are rich kids (they can afford the "H") they usually hold aristocratic & republican views quite at odds with the punk scene.
Emos are basically as stated, just emotional car crashes. Cases self-extracted from the above scenes, often by excessive use of "X" and bound for the psyche ward until their Seratonin levels even out. Emo's listen to basically the same music as the other two with an emphasis on the more depressive bands.
But these are my experiences with the old guards of the scene, I can't make any statement about what the Hot Topic punks, goths & emos of today are like. They always look at me like I'm a Narc or a Pedophile when I go in there to buy a classic metal tee shirt... and I'm neither I'm just an old fart punk!
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
Reading this discussion reminds of something. Below are excerpts (and slight modifications) from Wikipedia. Which classification best fits the description below?
Much of this culture represented a negative stance rather than a positive one. It was animated more by a vague feeling of cultural and emotional displacement, dissatisfaction, and yearning, than by a specific purpose or program.
This culture was far from monolithic. It was many different, conflicting, shifting states of mind.
The philosophy was generally counter-cultural, anti-materialistic and stressed the importance of bettering one's inner self over and above material possessions.
Much of this culture represented a negative stance rather than a positive one. It was animated more by a vague feeling of cultural and emotional displacement, dissatisfaction, and yearning, than by a specific purpose or program.
This culture was far from monolithic. It was many different, conflicting, shifting states of mind.
The philosophy was generally counter-cultural, anti-materialistic and stressed the importance of bettering one's inner self over and above material possessions.
Those are all good descriptions of adolescence.
America's punk, goth and emo scenes are outlets for suburban kids who resent growing up in a four bedroom split-level and needing someone to drive them to the nearest playground. For 99%, it's just fashion or adolescent rebellion that'll be shelved just before going out to look for a real job.
I never saw a goth or anyone with a mohawk until I went to college in 1979 and finally started going out. They seemed pretty radical, but that was 30 years ago. I never saw kids doing it back then, probably because it was pretty outrageous and parents wouldn't allow it. Now it's so mainstream that plenty of parents don't mind if their kid wants to dress for Halloween every day.
Goth got famous because of Siouxsie and the Banshees, who were pretty big when I arrived at college. I've never liked the music, which is awfully stilted, or the Nightmare Before Christmas sense of fashion. It doesn't seem to have changed much over the years, other than for cosmetic innovations that produce an even more corpse-like appearance. The music sounds as constipated as ever. As for Emo, I no longer know what it means because the definition keeps changing. When I was in my 20s, it was punk music with more chords and less gratuitous violence.
I remember the sensationalistic news coverage of punk during the Sex Pistols' American tour. It opened the eyes of whitebread suburbia, me included. One TV talking head was acting as if Godzilla had just stepped up out of the Atlantic. It was like the alarmist coverage of Elvis wiggling his hips, except Elvis wasn't singing about anarchy or the government being a fascist regime. My father went to Europe for business at that time and I asked him to get me some punk records if he got the chance. He didn't, but did get some photos of punks and people with mohawks hanging around a London park. It was pretty heady stuff for a high schooler in the suburbs of Jackson, MS. But those people are hitting their 50s now and the shock value is long gone.
Don't get me wrong; I love punk music to this day. Maybe it's because I'm a fan of distortion and dissonance and of musicians who put everything they have into a song, even if they don't have very much. But fashion is just a costume, whether it's a banker in a Brook Brothers suit or a kid all in black with a pasty white face and black lipstick. I hate costumes.
America's punk, goth and emo scenes are outlets for suburban kids who resent growing up in a four bedroom split-level and needing someone to drive them to the nearest playground. For 99%, it's just fashion or adolescent rebellion that'll be shelved just before going out to look for a real job.
I never saw a goth or anyone with a mohawk until I went to college in 1979 and finally started going out. They seemed pretty radical, but that was 30 years ago. I never saw kids doing it back then, probably because it was pretty outrageous and parents wouldn't allow it. Now it's so mainstream that plenty of parents don't mind if their kid wants to dress for Halloween every day.
Goth got famous because of Siouxsie and the Banshees, who were pretty big when I arrived at college. I've never liked the music, which is awfully stilted, or the Nightmare Before Christmas sense of fashion. It doesn't seem to have changed much over the years, other than for cosmetic innovations that produce an even more corpse-like appearance. The music sounds as constipated as ever. As for Emo, I no longer know what it means because the definition keeps changing. When I was in my 20s, it was punk music with more chords and less gratuitous violence.
I remember the sensationalistic news coverage of punk during the Sex Pistols' American tour. It opened the eyes of whitebread suburbia, me included. One TV talking head was acting as if Godzilla had just stepped up out of the Atlantic. It was like the alarmist coverage of Elvis wiggling his hips, except Elvis wasn't singing about anarchy or the government being a fascist regime. My father went to Europe for business at that time and I asked him to get me some punk records if he got the chance. He didn't, but did get some photos of punks and people with mohawks hanging around a London park. It was pretty heady stuff for a high schooler in the suburbs of Jackson, MS. But those people are hitting their 50s now and the shock value is long gone.
Don't get me wrong; I love punk music to this day. Maybe it's because I'm a fan of distortion and dissonance and of musicians who put everything they have into a song, even if they don't have very much. But fashion is just a costume, whether it's a banker in a Brook Brothers suit or a kid all in black with a pasty white face and black lipstick. I hate costumes.
I agree with the " i hate costumes " statement, thats why its hard to determine... what people dress tends to be a guideline for people to determine what group people are with but most of those groups would deny obviously their looks as being a part of a group. they want to be an " individual " haha
cmon we've all done blue mowhawks with leather jackets and big patches with your favorite no one knows this band stuff. haha
now if I could only dig up a photograph haha
cmon we've all done blue mowhawks with leather jackets and big patches with your favorite no one knows this band stuff. haha
now if I could only dig up a photograph
hahaLOL the ads on this page are for Bad Religion's 2008 tour, one of my buddies is going to see them in Thunder Bay
wanna see something warped, look up a site called "emo corner"
IMO anyone who puts pretty much ANY effort into appearing as a certain "type" has some issues
I know me and Josh are of the same mind on metal- despite what anyone might think, the very core of proper heavy metal music is FUN. I likes me music a LOT and I suppose it can influence my presentation a bit but I don't actually try to do things based on it. Also despite appearances, going to a metal show packed with "scary lookin" folks is one of the safest things you can do, no joke- you can walk up to folks you don't know and just talk to them, "attitude" is to be checked at the door if it's even present in the first place
I don't get much of the "goth" or "emo" thing- if life hurts SO much why F-ing bother?? The whole culture of suffering/weakness thing makes ZERO sense to me, the punk attitude of "this stuff sucks, let's just ignore it" is a MUCH more admirable POV
Besides I'd look silly with black nail-polish on
wanna see something warped, look up a site called "emo corner"
IMO anyone who puts pretty much ANY effort into appearing as a certain "type" has some issues
I know me and Josh are of the same mind on metal- despite what anyone might think, the very core of proper heavy metal music is FUN. I likes me music a LOT and I suppose it can influence my presentation a bit but I don't actually try to do things based on it. Also despite appearances, going to a metal show packed with "scary lookin" folks is one of the safest things you can do, no joke- you can walk up to folks you don't know and just talk to them, "attitude" is to be checked at the door if it's even present in the first place
I don't get much of the "goth" or "emo" thing- if life hurts SO much why F-ing bother?? The whole culture of suffering/weakness thing makes ZERO sense to me, the punk attitude of "this stuff sucks, let's just ignore it" is a MUCH more admirable POV
Besides I'd look silly with black nail-polish on
haha I like most of what you've said until they verrry bottom, no not about the nailpolish just that punks dont really go with the "this stuff sucks, lets just ignore it." most of punk started up for kids to speak out against the normal working class and the government and really whatever they thought was messed up. its more of like a social protest more often than not. punks tend put themselves thru a lot of trouble so that its not ignored. hence the bright colors and outrageous attitudes usually. the last thing punks want is to be ignored.
... in my experience that is..
just that punks dont really go with the "this stuff sucks, lets just ignore it." most of punk started up for kids to speak out against the normal working class and the government and really whatever they thought was messed up. its more of like a social protest more often than not. punks tend put themselves thru a lot of trouble so that its not ignored. hence the bright colors and outrageous attitudes usually. the last thing punks want is to be ignored. ... in my experience that is..
Ahhh sorry, train of thought got derailed- I meant more of a "ignore it and build yer own stuff" kind of ignore- sorta of like thoughtful ignorance, knowing the "way things are", hating it and refusing to play by the established rules, making sure folks understand that they are NOT following along
I agree totally with what you said there tho, I just express myself oddly sometimes
I agree totally with what you said there tho, I just express myself oddly sometimes
joossa
Aklys
haha joosa your right, I feel like MOST of that was left in highschool, I still have the same values and music taste and express myself in whichever way I want, but theres far less drama since i've been out of that deathtrap known as highschool.
oh and joosa if your really an office fan you'll try me on some office trivia, see if I dont dominate I dare you! haha I love the office, in the official office calender sept is the month of angela, just thought you should know
oh and joosa if your really an office fan you'll try me on some office trivia, see if I dont dominate I dare you! haha I love the office, in the official office calender sept is the month of angela, just thought you should know
I'll second that one! (or third it since the guy above beat me to it)
Nowadays if I wanna "engage" someone with a vastly divergent point of view I have to seek it out. They said "school is the best years of your life" I found out that was a heinous lie. If I die and go to "hell" I'll find myself at the gates of my HS, nothing could be worse than that (except maybe Auschwitz).
I don't have a mohawk anymore, I'm just too lazy to "do" my hair at all. I still wear all black tees, shorts/jeans & boots with my white socks but that'll never change no matter how old I eventually get. I'd love to wear some of the cool goth trench coats and stuff they sell at Hot Topics cos I like how it looks buty I'm not spending that kinda money on clothes. I cringe enough paying $30 for a tee shirt that was only $9 when I bought it originally back in 1987...
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
