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Thread: People are pouring out into the streets...

  1. #25
    nepenthes_ak's Avatar
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    We need another Depression, maybe Americans might learn this time around.

  2. #26
    "Oh, now he's a philosophizer" Baylorguy's Avatar
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    This is not a new development. This is due to years of handling finances, both by consumers and businesses, irresponsibly. It just so happens to be a single link in a chain of poor financial management that started more than two decades ago. In America we don’t want it; we want everything, including things we cannot afford, right now. This tendency for instant gratification has been marked with a red flag for years, yet the trend has continued. Just as the oil crunch served as a wakeup call, I believe this may force all of us to be more responsible with finances. We dug this hole ourselves (well, we did along with some idiotic upper management in the financial sector), and we are going to have to work together to get out of it.

    If we do give somewhat of a bailout plan, remove the people from their leadership roles that weren’t able to stem the tide. I refuse to let almost a trillion dollars be placed in the hands already stained with blame for the mortgage crisis.

    If the government doesn't bail us out in some way, whether it is via a phased process, or a lump sum standpoint, we are going to be hurting. Anyone that says otherwise needs to comprehensively study the situation we're in. As my buddy Caro used to say... "it ain't lookin good."

  3. #27

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    "One thing we learn from history is that men never learn from history"

    This is not a new problem, this problem is something that was coming for a long time because of the way Americans as a whole live their lifestyle. I know not everyone is guilty of living about their means but the American culture as a whole says put it on credit I will pay for it tomorrow. And that works until things go wrong and then it all collapses like a house of cards. Unfortunately the bailout is a solution to tomorrows problem not to the one for next week figuratively speaking. The American culture has a tendency to be short sighted looking only at the immediate or most foreseeable problems and ignoring long term problems as a result. This whole crisis is the perfect example. People only looked at what they could buy tomorrow and not how much it was going to cost them next week. This was inevitable. Hopefully it teaches Americans to stop letting advertisers and credit companies tell them what they need to be living the good life. This will just create more problems later rather than sooner. Its time to shift some major financial and belief patterns in America or we will just destroy ourselves.

    As for the collapse of the American empire I agree that it is looming closer than we want to believe. I don't believe it can be saved intact but if we act properly and soon I believe we can still maintain some level of affluence on the world scale. The UK survived the collapse of its empire and now has a very respectable standard of living and a good stable economy relatively speaking. Its time America realizes our glory days are over and that we being to grow up and act like a responsible nation.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  4. #28
    "Oh, now he's a philosophizer" Baylorguy's Avatar
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    I agree about our culture. A very dangerous outlook on things. Saying the fall of our empire is possibly at hand though, is a bit premature. Most countries have been through a dramatic financial crisis, and many have survived.

    I say we start collecting the trillions of dollars in debt owed to us by other nations that we bailed out



    Quote Originally Posted by ktulu View Post
    "One thing we learn from history is that men never learn from history"

    This is not a new problem, this problem is something that was coming for a long time because of the way Americans as a whole live their lifestyle. I know not everyone is guilty of living about their means but the American culture as a whole says put it on credit I will pay for it tomorrow. And that works until things go wrong and then it all collapses like a house of cards. Unfortunately the bailout is a solution to tomorrows problem not to the one for next week figuratively speaking. The American culture has a tendency to be short sighted looking only at the immediate or most foreseeable problems and ignoring long term problems as a result. This whole crisis is the perfect example. People only looked at what they could buy tomorrow and not how much it was going to cost them next week. This was inevitable. Hopefully it teaches Americans to stop letting advertisers and credit companies tell them what they need to be living the good life. This will just create more problems later rather than sooner. Its time to shift some major financial and belief patterns in America or we will just destroy ourselves.

    As for the collapse of the American empire I agree that it is looming closer than we want to believe. I don't believe it can be saved intact but if we act properly and soon I believe we can still maintain some level of affluence on the world scale. The UK survived the collapse of its empire and now has a very respectable standard of living and a good stable economy relatively speaking. Its time America realizes our glory days are over and that we being to grow up and act like a responsible nation.

  5. #29
    Metal King
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    I say we start collecting the trillions of dollars in debt owed to us by other nations that we bailed out
    That should be a nice downpayment on the incredible amount of money China might want back in the NEAR future
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  6. #30
    "Oh, now he's a philosophizer" Baylorguy's Avatar
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    Definitely want to stay on China's good side.


    Quote Originally Posted by mabudon View Post
    That should be a nice downpayment on the incredible amount of money China might want back in the NEAR future

  7. #31
    War. War never changes. Est's Avatar
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    The plan as of Sep 28

    Since the plan is supposed to be published but at last check the links weren't working, here's a link to the current draft of the "Economic Stabilization Act" calling for $800 billion (reported). Going through it is kinda tough though, of course.

    I love Wikileaks. One of the finest resources we have these days.
    Last edited by Est; 09-28-2008 at 10:39 PM.
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  8. #32
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    They should riot in the streets! We're giving away a crazy amount of money to the very executives and cronies who created this mess. While normal people struggle to afford health care, and send their kids to declining schools, and while their infrastructure crumbles, we get to sent hundreds of billions to bail out people who have already fleeced us for years.

    And rattler, don't buy the hype - McCain and Bush have pushed for deregulation for decades. In March of THIS YEAR, he said this:
    “In financial institutions, there is no substitute for adequate capital to serve as a buffer against losses. Our financial market approach should include encouraging increased capital in financial institutions by removing regulatory, accounting and tax impediments to raising capital.“

    His chief economic adviser, Phil Gramm, has been the architect if this deregulation. Which gives him the double distinction of being at fault for both the energy crisis AND the mortgage crisis:

    "Gramm slipped an Enron-backed provision into the Commodities Futures Modernization Act that exempted from regulation energy trading on electronic platforms.Then, over the next year, Enron – with Gramm’s wife Wendy serving on its board of directors – worked to create false electricity shortages in California, bilking consumers out of an estimated $40 billion."

    And now with the mortgage crisis, we have the fox in charge of the henhouse. The Treasury Secretary, who will dole out the money at his whim, is none other than the former CEO of Goldman Sachs. Guess whose friends will get the hundreds of billions of dollars?

    Meanwhile, what about those people who are being foreclosed upon? Oh that's right, they get no bailout, no protection, nothing. What they get is to lose their homes (to the banks that we are bailing out). Because evidently, we have a government representing and protecting corporate interests, and which has no interest in the citizens they are supposed to be representing.

    And the Democrats are no alternative. They have gone along with this from the beginning. They also represent their business and corporate interests. Only. Just like the GOP, that's who financed their election.

    So yes, people should be pouring into the streets. We need to take our country back from the looters and vultures. And it won't happen by voting for McCain or Obama. It can only happen by a complete change in awareness, attitude, and level of anger in the public. We need a soft revolution - we need to gut BOTH parties, reform our campaign finance system, and change our government's priorities away from the giant, non-capitalist corporations and to the regular people who go to work, start businesses, and pay taxes.
    /rant

    Capslock
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