User Tag List

Informational! Informational!:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 17 to 23 of 23

Thread: The LHC and Schroedinger's Cat.

  1. #17
    swords's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Cernunnos Woods
    Posts
    8,120
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This is how I understand science and its currently postulated "proofs". We have models and those models show predictable patterns until a new model is designed which either refutes or confirms the current model. Adherence and firm belief (blind faith) to any one current model (used here instead of "law") constitutes a kind of "model theism" for some people. Substituting a "God" for a "Theory" and then they go about worshiping that theory and taking a personal offense to it if anything contradictory comes up. I feel that "ground breaking science" should always look for ways to destroy the current models we have and find better ways of proving (or not proving) things. Watching scientists fight over their theories is great fun for the rest of us! Rob Cantley (Borneo Exotics) once relayed a tale here of an Entomologist who named a beetle "Darth vaderii" or something like that and caused a firestorm. Only geeks like me enjoy stories like that and science is full of refutations, Einstein, Rosen and Podalsky tried to discredit QM but the alternatives QUIP and Bell's Theorem seem even sillier to me. Classical Magick works via Bells Theorem, if you believe that magick works to effect physical space-time and not just ones "internal universe".

    I guess I differ from some with my idea that we should basically let science run wild. Investigate everything! Whatever wacky idea you've got, get out there and prove it (or disprove it). The imposition of these fake "scientific ethics" (by governments like the Current US Government Model) can come very close to totalitarianism if work is going on certain persons don't agree with. See: Dr. Wilhelm Reich as one example of someone who was jailed by the US Government until he died and had his published books burned (despite his name he was not a nazi war criminal, ). I feel that so long as people and pets are not being abducted in the night and experimented upon against their desires, I say throw open the laboratory doors and let's find out what the hell's really going on around here and what we can do about it - if anything. All "acceptable science" was "mad science" when the ideas were first developed. What makes mad science, "mad" is if the scientist keeps running the same failed experiment believing that one day it will work instead of devising a new test. I'd like to see grants doled out for enterprising young scientists with interesting ideas like they used to have for young artists. But, Like with Art, the Morality Squad tries to claim something or other is "Against Natural Law", which is a not very veiled allusion to Theology. Something that could be against natural law simply would not be possible to happen. Anything that can happen in our space-time is NOT against natural law. Yet people allowed the government to say cloning research was against natural law. In essence they made a religious statement about how they were going to allow science to proceed. In the popular jargon of the 1990s "they got medieval on our *****" I thought the church controlling science was over?

    When forced to read something like the ID design passage you mention, just remember that in science there are four states information can exist in: True, False, Indeterminate and Meaningless. True and False can be proven or disproven with physical tests in our space-time. Indeterminate is something we just can't answer by any known test today but in a couple years who knows? All ID or Creationist theory put into a science book falls instantly into the Meaningless category. Why is it "meaningless"? Because the Meaningless category in regards to science means something that can never be proven or disproven. This "information" contains no "scientific information" at all, it is merely noise on paper. It seems very unfortunate to me that they are putting these things in science text books if that's where you got that from but I understand there are some states where that's allowed. The passage you quote is quite insidious and not the way I would have imagined they are slipping it in. it IS more worrisome than I would have imagined.

    Lest anyone believe me a total heathen, I do have a large selection of mythology and mysticism books as well but like most things, I'm "agnostic" about any and all of it. It just amounts to another of my crazy passions.

  2. #18
    Nooblet Botanicadenta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    West Texas
    Posts
    177
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    For clarification's sake, I heard the 'created kind' comment on christian radio. I'm not sure what's in the ID textbooks, but this is what the 'pros' are saying, so I imagine anyone exposed to the ID doctrine will also have to endure bits of that sort of thing.

    And this is why I want to homeschool my kids in the future.

    Also, Mysticism and mythology is a great thing to collect. For me, personally, it's a window into the psychology of a developing species. So much Jungean and Freudian Psychology, especially in Norse mythos.

  3. #19
    swords's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Cernunnos Woods
    Posts
    8,120
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's a bit more comforting to know that didn't come from a book you've been made to read in school but to think they are even considering subverting biology with such misstatements really seems to me like a crime of intentional disinformation. Imagine how an American scientist or bio-engineer moving to China for a joint project would be laughed at if something so Meaningless (in the scientific sense) were to come out of his mouth in a professional laboratory. I think if we don't want our next generation of scientists to become laughing stocks or simply medieval alchemists looking for the hidden "divine essences" this sort of thing must be kept out of any classes that have anything to do with science. I haven't heard that any forms of creationism were being bullied into schools in heathen Europe or the Orient it seems from what I know of it that it's an exclusively American problem.

    Since those of us interested in science and philosophy theory are so "open minded" how about a book such as this which I just found today while out booking:
    10 Books That Screwed Up the World (by someone who's not a domesticated primate but a MAN! In the divine sense! lol)
    http://www.amazon.com/10-Books-That-...2815571&sr=8-1

    The back of the book has some hilarious quotes from reviewers If it wasn't so expensive I'd like to have bought & read it for the entertainment value of finding someone who has the audacity to say "I've read these nasty, dirty, evil, books so you don't have to." Unfortunately I've read many of them already... He will then prove to me why I shouldn't read them and why they're "dangerous". But it's not nearly big enough for the price in my opinion. I think the shop mis-filed it by setting it in the philosophy section and not the religious section as all refutements are based on theological (and conspiratorial) frame of mind. By payday however, I'll probably have stewed over the idea of this book so long that buying it will be the first thing I do on saturday! Much as I hate to support an author like that it's always good to egg yourself on once in a while.

    I definitely agree with homeschooling so long as the kids get socialized with modern society and other kids. I'd like to think if my kids are gonna have their minds soaped, rinsed and hung out to dry by anyone, it's gonna be me! Of course, I know what a moron I often think my dad is (even though I got my interest in science and philosophy sparked by him) so my kids would probably think the same of me! lol

  4. #20
    Nooblet Botanicadenta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    West Texas
    Posts
    177
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    haha! seems like an interesting read, but defintely a victim of moral relativism, especially since a few (Descent of Man and Discourse on Method, most notably) were written with regard to a certain degree of intellectual responsibility on the reader's part.

    Also: http://listverse.com/literature/10-b...-up-the-world/

    For the cliffsnotes version. It has a lot of similar sentences as used in the Amazon summary too... I wonder. Seriously, look under the bookjacket section on Amazon and then the summaries under the books that the Listverse site has. Conspiracy?

    So, before verring off topic further, I've been pondering something that may add to the quantum immortality thing that may bring it back from the reaches of far-fetched. Specifically, the fact that irregardless of the situation, there's seems to be fairly definable odds as to its survivability. For example, the guy who bounced and survived a 2000 foot drop when his parachute didn't open, or the diver found in a whales intestine(note to self, look those up on Snopes, they sound pretty ridiculous). With this is mind, does it make the possibility more believeable? Have you come close to death in any bizarre way and yet walked away as if you were caught in the rain? I hit a guard rail with some friends with no seatblet on at 50 m.p.h. on a curve that had a 50 foot drop on the other side. None of us had any serious problems or injuries. It was pretty trippy, everyone had an out of body experience who could remember anything about it.

  5. #21
    swords's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Cernunnos Woods
    Posts
    8,120
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't feel philosophy, semantics/semiotics, mystical experimentation (not dogmatic religion) or consciousness change stands too far removed from Quantum Mechanics because of the varieties of thought or experinece which exist and the scientific interest (psychology) behind those areas of thought. I think QM makes more sense to me on a personal or human level when viewed in the context of psychology.

    As far as physical quandrys like "why am I still here" my main one was when I was about 8 years old we were going to see the ET movie in the theater later that day so I decided to bike around the neighborhood a bit to relieve the anxiety of waiting to go. I turned the corner to get back to my place and a guy shot out of his garage and backed right over me. He didn't see me at all or hear my yelling but luckily for me the handlebars of the bike jammed and he couldn't back up any further so he stopped and got out to see what was going on. He was really wigged out when he saw that a kid was trapped under the car but I didn't get hurt at all, not a scratch and it only damaged the grips on the handle bars. I wonder if he looks when he backs up these days?

    I've had a number of "mystical" astral projections or OBEs or whatever you like to call them. Always they have been self-induced through the classical methods, I've never had any spontaneously occur. Many times I've taken the easy route and get there via some good tea, I enjoy that sort of mind-magick/creative visualisation. As an artist/writer I find these kinds of adventures very inspiring. One standout experience for me in the recent year was after a extensive study of egyptology and classical necromancy. I had spent an evening meditating on some egyptian anubis and bast statues, breathing deeply and slowing my heart rate as low as it could go until I went dark. I underwent a sensory/visual experience of being embalmed, mummified, ressurected and unwrapped by temple preists and raised to witness a new constellation forming in the sky outside the tomb. As the sun rapidly came up in the vision I also "woke" from the whole state which lasted some 20 minutes perhaps after "going dark". What it means other than I'm a weirdo I couldn't say. But I attribute that sort of "freerange mystical experience" to my intensive studies at the time combined with the trance techniques, and good tea!

  6. #22
    Nooblet Botanicadenta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    West Texas
    Posts
    177
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have to say, with what is known about neurology, I've lost a lot of faith in OBE's, although there are some exceptions that stick out to me. For a while I smoked a lot of "legal smoke" blends with all sorts of random constituents to go dream walking a few years back. The results were largely bizarre and immemorable. I had lots of flash visions of things like my house, but all the door frames were made of roller skates and the like that would stick in my field of view, then fade slowly as I tried to sleep.

    The thing that really got me, however, was when I started dreaming lifetimes. From what I've read about Salvia(never tried... successfully), it was very similar, except less symbolic. In these dreams I would be going about my day, very mundane, trivial stuff, except things would be different. It was as if I was visiting separate timelines based on decisions I had made in my life, such as "what if I had stayed with that one Ex of mine" or, "what if I had never moved out of the house I was raised in?" Sort of things. It was how completely UN-dreamlike they were that really made them stick out. One in particular was so intense, flashing through my mind, an entire lifetime of events and experiences, all my life, just a little different, until one day I went to get a book from a shelf in my old room, circa age 17, and then woke up in my studio apartment in Houston.

    Very strange stuff, it was actually after those series of dreams that I became very involved in trying to understand relativity, QM, and the MWI of QM.

    Speaking of bike survivals, I found this out after High School, but when I was 6, I fell while trying to learn to ride a bike and jabbed the butt of a handlebar right beneath my ribs. It hurt so bad I became the only 6(then 7, then... 12) year old who didn't know how to ride one. I still have a smidgeon of scar from then. Now, the reason this was allowed to happen and my parents never encouraged me to try again, is because two weeks after that, another boy, also 6, did the exact same thing, and died of internal bleeding.

    50/50 eh?

  7. #23
    swords's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Cernunnos Woods
    Posts
    8,120
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I feel that many of the "unexpected / instantaneous" OBEs, NDE's or even the ever popular "UFO sightings" or "Alien Abductions" are simply unexpected activations of the pineal gland. This is where DMT (an analog similar to Salvinorin-A or Salvia) and other chemicals are naturally created in the brain. DMT is one of the strongest psychedelics known, changing both visual perception and thought in radical ways though it's effects generally do not last very long. This gland I feel, is where these sorts of visionary "mystical" and near death or other archetype ridden "mental experiences" take place or at least originate and travel through our nervous system. Mystical exercises such as fasting, meditation on specific images and ideas, yoga (pranayama), lucid dreaming experiments, sensory deprivation or overload, etc are ways to activate the Pineal. In this day and age I regard the UFO and alien greys as merely a new emerging archetype (following Jung). Possibly it can indicate a terror of the future? As much as I've wanted to see a UFO or alien I never have had the chance, maybe I don't want it or fear it enough?

    On death I think we may receive the largest rush of DMT as the gland fires its last and this perhaps explains the expression of "life flashing before my eyes" as all our past perceptions come back in a flood of visions like a movie montage, as I've heard it described. Near death events may trigger the same biological blast from the gland and may explain how people come out of a near death experiences a "changed person", as one is also said to be after a psychedelic or mystical experience. My great uncle nearly died and had to have emergency surgery. He was never a religious man however after that he began to volunteer at the church as an usher (he never even went before). He never discussed what had happened and I was not into neuroscience when he was still alive as I was a kid but today I would dearly love to ask him all about it. I have gone as far as to say this gland seems to me where "we" (our ego or "self") reside. But I have absolutely no proof of that other than my own off the wall deductions since science has never found where "we" reside in our brains if indeed it's not just an amalgamation of the whole or something else entirely.

    As schizophrenics are often said to be visually hallucinating I would like to see some blood tests to see if someone in a full schitzophrenic state and someone in a mystic trance state has a higher amount of DMT than the average person. For some interesting research into this area have a look at: DMT the Spirit Molecule by Strassman if you haven't already. I don't personally believe that any of the experiments I've performed on myself ever found me actually leaving the carcass and actually moving about in any sense other than in the "mind's eye". Not being of a religious bent I never could attach any sort of cosmic or religious significance to any of these kinds of experiences but I don't discount other people's deductions to the contrary from their own experiences as we all perceive things like signs and symbols (semiotics) differently.

    For more info on this sort of subject see: Programming the Human Biocomputer by John Lilly and just about all psychology works by Timothy Leary.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •