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Thread: Preview of Vice-Presidential Debate

  1. #25

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    Chicago has had murder problems for years and if we sent in 16,000 troops I bet we could really lower the crime rate in Chicago, but invading a US city might not go so well. The point I am trying to make here is that the US deaths in Iraq never would have happened if the US hadnt invaded, the murders in Chicago would have happened at about the same rate regardless of if we went to war with Iraq. In fact if you track the FBI compiled murder rates from 2000-2007 (628/100k to 442/100k) there has been a steady decline over time so what your saying is pure garbage and means absolutely nothing .
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  2. #26
    rattler's Avatar
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    weither they are declining or not more Americans were still murdered in Chicago than Iraq in the last 6 months......just putting things in perspective.....the number of American deaths in Iraq has been declining over the same time period aswell......

    push comes to shove i would have prefered us to drop a nuke on Bagdad while Saddam was having dinner back in the early 90's....be a whole lot less messy and get a point across damn quick.....aint nessisarily happy we are there but a rapid extraction is going to cause more problems now that we are there......we likely aint going to be their much longer....McCains words have been twisted when he said we would be there along time.....in all reality we are still in Germany, Japan, Korea, Phillipienes ect we will likely have a military presence their for a long damn time but we aint going to be nessisarily "at war".........

    what i would have prefered to see post 9/11 was small tactical strikes on those funding the terrorists in Iraq, Iran and Saudi and the terrorists themselves rooted out of Afganistan.......but that aint what happened and we have to deal with what we did do......contrary to what the main stream media has fed you reenlistment percentages are at a very high rate in the armed forces....my cousin is getting ready to go for his third tour in the sand box and after having tweny years in he could got out after the first or second........
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
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  3. #27
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    I can't remember the last time I saw/heard anything about re-enlistment rates in the mainstream media. There was a lot for a while about the stop-loss program preventing people from leaving when they wanted, but I haven't seen anything recently. Iraq has vanished as an issue because one party wants it that way and the other party thinks it has a better chance if it just flogs the first party with the economy. With the economy what it is, I expect re-enlistment rates to stay pretty high because other options aren't looking so good right now.

    As for the rate of US fatalities in Iraq, that's always been a red herring, whether someone claims it's high or that it's low. The rate of mental/physical trauma is much worse and it'll be a serious problem as time goes by. A lot of people will return needing help and, not only will they not get it, there'll be few prospects for them to do anything else.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  4. #28
    rattler's Avatar
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    A lot of people will return needing help and, not only will they not get it, there'll be few prospects for them to do anything else
    you know i have my doubts on this but ive only got experiance of it through my buddy.....he joined up after the first Iraq war in '92, spent 4 years in and was Army Airborne with emphasis on Arctic Warfare, he jumped out of planes and played in the snow.....never saw combat though, never left the states......4 months ago he tweaked his back and herniated a disk.....told him was likely related to jumping out of a plane so many dang times causing a weakened spot that finally let go though there is no way to prove it....seems the military agrees and he is having surgery next week......going to cost him $50 co-pay and you and me and other tax-payers are picking up the rest....

    yep our boys over in the sand box are going to be chit on as far as medical care.......i have a hard time believing that given what ive seen of the system......
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  5. #29

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    I think Herenorthere was referring to the psychological effects fighting the occupation of Iraq will cause. I know a few people personally that I am pretty sure have low levels of PTSD but they dont think they do so they do not receive treatment like they should. These costs on the american society as a whole will be with us for decades to come and the military is not doing a good enough job of screening people upon their return from the combat zones.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  6. #30
    rattler's Avatar
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    The rate of mental/physical trauma
    i can read.....he also includes physical......as far as the mental.....what yah want to do? lock all returning soldiers up for 6 months after returning from the sandbox? its very hard to treat someone that doesnt want help but if they do want it there is things availible for them......couple local guys i knew that came back shortly before the 4th of July the last few years have had a hard time dealing with fireworks......they have chosen to wait it out instead of seeking help though its available to them.......i aint big on a nanny state, i feel confident that the boys coming back can get help if they want it......if they chose not to seek it out at the request of family and friends who see it when they dont, well im not to big on tossing them in a hospital if they dont want to be there.....its a free country and its their choice......and they above all others have earned the right to make that choice.....
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  7. #31
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    I have a hard time grasping some peoples views on politics sometimes. Like Bush=McCain, and the people who believe Obama is actually going to give a tax cut. His idea of a tax cut is another credit like the 600 dollars we got from Bush in the stimulus package. His tax break will be a one time deal and have no long term effect. Oh it will buy him votes because those who do not even have any tax liability will also get about 1000 dollars. So of course many like it because of that fact. I just don't believe they know the entire picture of him.
    JB
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  8. #32

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    Those who believe that McCain is different from Bush would make a better case if, instead of just saying they are different, they gave details of how McCain's positions on issues, such as Iraq and the economy, differ from Bush's policies.

    Although McCain's tax plan calls for a tax cut for the average taxpayer in every income group , high-income taxpayers would benefit more than everyone else. Under Obama's tax plan, high-income taxpayers ($227K and above) would pay more in taxes, and those earning under $112K would have a bigger tax cut than under McCain's plan.

    http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news...ion=2008061113

    Sarah Palin invoked the ghost of Ronald Regan several times during the debate, referring to a Regan quote in her closing statement. That Regan quote is from a long time ago, even before he was running for President, when he argued against Medicare. He said it would lead to socialism. Maybe so, but I don't know anyone under Medicare who wants to abolish it.

    http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?p=759836

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