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Post Presidential Debate 2 Discussion

  • Thread starter DrWurm
  • Start date

DrWurm

Californian in DC
Well, let's get the ball rolling.

Mccain was definitely the aggressor today, which is no surprise since he's been slipping in the polls. He was clearly comfortable in the town hall setting.

Barrack played it cool, but got in a few punches including the infamous "Bomb Iran" song. I liked his JFK reference.

Once again there was no clear winner, and I'm sure the polls will be mixed for the next few days. Anywho, I'll hand this thread off to rattler, capslock, and company ^^
 
once again a worthless debate...............
 
once again a worthless debate...............

I am just now watching the replays, but I tend to agree. Just a bunch of stump speeches thrown in the guise of responding to questions. However, I'm interested in how the candidates react to each other, although nothing spectacular has come out yet.

xvart.
 
My question becomes:

Who is McCain's real hero- FDR or Reagan? Maybe if I look at his extensive voting record... ;)

I still have 40 minutes to watch (another night!) But McCain did manage to goad Obama at least once, rather cleverly. I was surprised that Obama let his anger get the better of him. McCain says refers to "my friends" more often than his running mate says "maverick." There were a few points where Obama could have scored big, but then kept rambling. Apparently knowing when to shut up is not something that the candidates feel voters value in a President.
 
My friends, it is interesting to think that the content of the presidential campaign is so vapid this time 'round that most of the spin I hear is bast on subtext and emotion as opposed to the debates at hand.

My friends, I do feel that McCain completely pwnt(for lack of a better term) on the grounds that he quite literally has managed to steal the entire Democratic platform. Everything from 'change' to green jobs and healthcare and put the Republican twist on it. I commend him for that.

My friends, Polls are putting Obama in a steady lead though. Once again, I'm a big D all the way, so, in an attempt to claim a non-biased position, there was no energy in the whole debate. Two years of campaigning have worn on these candidates, and it shows on both counts now that the last stretch approaches. Ultimately, Obama focused on the issues as much as he could, McCain on military service and his history in the armed forces.

My friends, I continue to be thankful that I have yet to be truly sucked into politics. Fascinating stuff though.
 
I should have said this in my first post, but I was surprised about McCain's plan to buy up housing. I didn't expect that.

xvart.
 
My friends, I do feel that McCain completely pwnt(for lack of a better term) on the grounds that he quite literally has managed to steal the entire Democratic platform. Everything from 'change' to green jobs and healthcare and put the Republican twist on it. I commend him for that.

you just noticed this tonight? this is why alot of republicans dont like him.....

as far as putting someone elses twist on stuff....Obama's speech on how he will deal with "Pokistan" if they dont take care of the terrorists themselves is pure Bush....

not sure if this keeps going over Obama's head though but he keeps preaching on bills McCain voted against and such that go against what he says he is for......well one major thing McCain is against is pork spending and he has voted against alot of bills he would have been for if they werent loaded down with pork.....

BTW every fact check places i have seen ALL say McCain was crying out that Fannie Mae and company needed regulation far before Obama........so Obama is full of crap on that point consistently.....all say that while McCain is for deregulation in most things he has wanted more regulatory oversight on these programs for a looooooong time....
 
BORING debate.
 
  • #10
you just noticed this tonight? this is why alot of republicans dont like him.....

as far as putting someone elses twist on stuff....Obama's speech on how he will deal with "Pokistan" if they dont take care of the terrorists themselves is pure Bush....

not sure if this keeps going over Obama's head though but he keeps preaching on bills McCain voted against and such that go against what he says he is for......well one major thing McCain is against is pork spending and he has voted against alot of bills he would have been for if they werent loaded down with pork.....

BTW every fact check places i have seen ALL say McCain was crying out that Fannie Mae and company needed regulation far before Obama........so Obama is full of crap on that point consistently.....all say that while McCain is for deregulation in most things he has wanted more regulatory oversight on these programs for a looooooong time....

Yep. In all fairness Bush was even for regulating Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac before Obama as well. I find it hilarious that Obama is trying to use deregulation, in the same context as a Federal Program. Conservatives are for deregulation, but not for deregulation of Federal programs...

Did anyone else find it interesting that Obama is the 2nd highest receiver of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, yet he's only been in the Senate for 4 years (2 really)? This isn't just this year, this is in the history of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac. It was also interesting that Obama had NO response to that fact either.

Speaking on deregulation:

BIDEN: Complained about "economic policies of the last eight years" that led to "excessive deregulation."

THE FACTS: Biden voted for 1999 deregulation that liberal groups are blaming for part of the financial crisis today. The law allowed Wall Street investment banks to create the kind of mortgage-related securities at the core of the problem now.

Once again who oversees Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac? Democrat Barney Franks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1UwIOqNxwc
 
  • #11
Did anyone else find it interesting that Obama is the 2nd highest receiver of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, yet he's only been in the Senate for 4 years (2 really)? This isn't just this year, this is in the history of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac. It was also interesting that Obama had NO response to that fact either.

Misleading, at best. How shall we slice the Fannie and Freddie donations to the candidates?

Based on employee donations to the campaigns: $126,349 for Obama vs. $21,550 for McCain.

Based on contributions from directors, officers, and lobbyists: $16,000 for Obama and $169,000 for McCain.


There have been no donations from the companies themselves, and by the first measure (employee contributions of $200 or more), yes, Obama is the second highest recipient. However, by the same token, by the second measure (directors, officers, and lobbyist contributions) show McCain with a significantly higher contribution number.

Furthermore, if we really want to look at the political weight behind the combined contributions of employees, directors, officers, and lobbyists, lets look at the total combined contributions as a factor of overall donations to each campaign, shall we?

All the contributions above for Obama combined make up 0.03% of Obama's total contributions.

All the contributions above for McCain combined make up 0.08% of McCain's total contributions.


So, I'll repeat, does Obama receive the highest amount of money from Freddie and Fannie employees of $200 or more (save one other politician who receives more)? Yes, this is true. But if we slice it another way, McCain has received significantly more contributions than Obama. It is up to the voters to decide which they think is more significant, employee contribution or lobbyist and the people that run the companies contribution?

xvart.
 
  • #12
Misleading, at best. How shall we slice the Fannie and Freddie donations to the candidates?

Based on employee donations to the campaigns: $126,349 for Obama vs. $21,550 for McCain.

Based on contributions from directors, officers, and lobbyists: $16,000 for Obama and $169,000 for McCain.


There have been no donations from the companies themselves, and by the first measure (employee contributions of $200 or more), yes, Obama is the second highest recipient. However, by the same token, by the second measure (directors, officers, and lobbyist contributions) show McCain with a significantly higher contribution number.

Furthermore, if we really want to look at the political weight behind the combined contributions of employees, directors, officers, and lobbyists, lets look at the total combined contributions as a factor of overall donations to each campaign, shall we?

All the contributions above for Obama combined make up 0.03% of Obama's total contributions.

All the contributions above for McCain combined make up 0.08% of McCain's total contributions.


So, I'll repeat, does Obama receive the highest amount of money from Freddie and Fannie employees of $200 or more (save one other politician who receives more)? Yes, this is true. But if we slice it another way, McCain has received significantly more contributions than Obama. It is up to the voters to decide which they think is more significant, employee contribution or lobbyist and the people that run the companies contribution?

xvart.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/update-fannie-mae-and-freddie.html
 
  • #13
you do realize while Obama was a lawyer for Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland in Chicago he was suing banks for not giving out enough housing loans to underprivileged minorities.....the same types of loans that are now defaulting...........

you know it blows my mind that some here have said they are surprised to learn about McCains views from last nights debate to find alot of them are the same as moderate democrats......ive been saying that since he was nominated......blows my mind that some ppl who i consider intelligent sit and listen to what a POLITICIAN tells you and refuse to go by their actual record, if yah did you would find half the stuff Obama is telling you is at odds with what he has done in the past and his story changed once he was running for president.....McCain, weither you like him or not is atleast telling you something that he can back up with his past practices ..........Obama was all for gun bans in Chicago and only changed his tune once running for president cause the SC said they were unconstitutional.....given Obama TAUGHT constitutional law for 12 years i find his actions in the Illinois senate very troubling.....every Supreme court justice said owning firearms was a constitutional right yet someone who taught constitutional law for 12 years said it wasnt and supported bans while he was in the state legislature........if you cant see something F'ed up in that you have blinders on

personally im not big on McCain, never was, i really liked Fred Thompson and Ron Paul.....ive got alot of respect for McCain as a man.....dont care for half his policies as a politician but atleast the SOB aint looking me in the face and trying to feed me a bunch of rose smelling BS and in my book that counts for alot
 
  • #14
First, totally agreed on the worthless debate. Bad format, bad moderation, bad performances by both candidates. They phoned this one in. It was a wasted 90 minutes for both sides.

There is, however, no question that there are stark differences in the policies of McCain and Obama. McCain is a war-monger through and through. He cheer-led the Iraq war from before the invasion, accepted the lies about WMDs, made bad predictions about how it would go, said we'd be greeted as liberators, and has banged the war drums on Iran as well. No surprise since he's surrounded himself with the PNAC people whose fevered imaginations led us to attack Iraq when Afghanistan let terrorists train for the 9/11 attacks. McCain is similarly off-base with health care and Social Security (good thing we didn't turn that over to the financial community, the least trustable people on the planet!) McCain is now trying to run to the center on things like alternative energies, but that is not his voting record, just empty campaign rhetoric. His position is not that of the moderate Democrat at all, and his voting record is pure Bush.

And rattler, I'm not a gun control guy - hell I own guns. But I should point out that every Supreme Court justice also acknowledged a limit on gun ownership rights. You can't own a nuclear weapon, for example. So it's just a matter of where the line is drawn, and many people of high intellect differ on where that line is, whether it's assault weapons bans or registration requirements. It's fully understandable that people in violence-marred inner cities would favor more controls, and people out in the wilderness would favor fewer controls. This isn't the problem facing our country right now, however. I wish we had the luxury of voting for the candidate we agree with on where that line on gun control is drawn. But sadly, we have far more important things to worry about. Neither of these guys is going to take your guns away - not in a million years. But they do have to navigate us out of the worst economic crisis of our lifetimes. And that person is Obama - McCain agrees he doesn't know much about the economy, and historically Democratic administrations perform better on the economy.
http://www.eriposte.com/economy/other/demovsrep.htm

McCain is a trickle-down adherent, a failed economic ideology that is based in greed, magic, and the narrow self-interests of those dreaming up the idea. Every prosperous society on this planet has a healthy middle class. Under GOP economic theories, the middle class is declining and hurting, while the ultra-wealthy have become vastly richer. You can find many two-bit countries around this world with a tiny cadre of rich people and a vast underclass. That's the result of "trickle-down" economics. And it's the last thing we need here. We need to build from the bottom up, through encouraging small businesses, creating jobs, and building our future through education and training. We need to stop exporting jobs, stop buying slave-labor products at Wal-Mart, and basically change how we do things. Obama is our best shot at that - McCain will just bring us four more years of failed Bush economics.

Capslock
 
  • #15
well given that Obama was for that line being drown on not allowing handguns in the home as a weapon specifically for self defense which is where the majority of the SC justices said it was BS

unlike Bush, McCain has showed no inkling of basing his presidency on war......the one thing he seems to want above all else is to cut pork barrel spending and the like in DC....he comes off far more concerned bout fixing the problems in DC than warmongering........if yah listened to Obama last night he is all for going in and stopping countries from doing genocide.......means he is interested in more peace keeping situations like Bosnia and Somalia......crap that gets US soldiers killed just as dead as in Iraq....he said he was also in favor of going into Pakistan if they dont do what we want them to with the Taliban.....

christ Clinton and most of the congress went with Bush lock step for a long time......after that the only thing McCain apposed was a time line........

and as for McCain not knowing that much about the economy........when asked last night who you would get to advise you on it he rattled off several solid names off the top of his head....Obama didnt........so McCain is interested in surrounding himself with ppl who do know what the heck is going on........

as for stopping the selling of slave labor products from Walmart.....the American public has gotten exactly what they asked for on that, being able to buy things at the lowest prices to hell with American jobs......we asked for it and we got it........you know how much chit the local stores here get cause they price something 2 or 3 bucks over Walmart? lots of locals, even with high gas prices would rather drive the 200 mile round trip to Walmart than pay an extra buck for a pan and keep a local store open.......that has nothing to do with who is president and everything to do with an idiotic public.........
 
  • #17
I don't understand? Is there some commentary to go along with this link?

xvart.

It's pretty self explanatory. All Recipients of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Campaign Contributions, 1989-2008:

Obama, Barack
Office: S
State: IL
Party: D

Grand Total: $126,349
Total from PACs: $6,000
Total from Individuals: $120,34

McCain, John
Office: S
State: AZ
Party: R

Grand Total: $21,550
Total from PACs: $0
Total from individuals: $21,550

Reminder, John McCain was in the senate for 26 years. Obama has only been there for roughly 2 years, with the rest on the campaign trail. Yet he's the #2 receiver of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac funds, over a time period of 19 years.
 
  • #18
It's pretty self explanatory. All Recipients of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Campaign Contributions, 1989-2008:

Oh, okay. I was able to figure that out, I just didn't know what the point was since I showed the same numbers as you did. I'm glad our numbers match up. And again, it's not money from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. It's money from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac employees, and not the big bosses and lobbyists.

xvart.
 
  • #19
if yah listened to Obama last night he is all for going in and stopping countries from doing genocide.......means he is interested in more peace keeping situations like Bosnia and Somalia......crap that gets US soldiers killed just as dead as in Iraq....he said he was also in favor of going into Pakistan if they dont do what we want them to with the Taliban.....

Obama was responding to the question about what principles should be used to determine when to intervene in a humanitarian crisis when national security is not at stake. So he answered the question. Maybe you don't remember what McCain said because he avoided the question.

and as for McCain not knowing that much about the economy........when asked last night who you would get to advise you on it he rattled off several solid names off the top of his head....Obama didnt........so McCain is interested in surrounding himself with ppl who do know what the heck is going on........

The question was who did each each candidate have in mind to replace Hank Paulson, the Treasury Secretary. The first name that McCain came up with was Warren Buffet. McCain rarely acknowledges good decisions that Obama has made, but Warren Buffett is one of Obama's economic advisors. Obama agreed that Warren Buffett would be a good choice, but did not offer another name. McCain did, and he came up with the name of former Ebay CEO Meg Whitman. Presumably, it was based upon his experience, which he kept referring to in the debate. Unfortunately, McCain's experience in economics is minimal, as he admitted a few weeks ago. Apparently, he was not aware that Meg Whitman is known for making poor financial decisions while at Ebay.

The answers given by the two candidates to this question highlights the difference in their styles of decision making. Obama showed that he tends to think a while about a question before giving a detailed answer. Perhaps he would consult with others first. McCain showed that his first impulse is to shoot first and ask questions later. That could be dangerous. McCain's finger should not be near any trigger. He and Cheney should not go hunting together.
 
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