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Thread: Obama and ACORN, the truth.

  1. #17
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herenorthere View Post
    That's a pretty deep load of BS, Outsiders. Your idea of what the country stands for and represents is just your point of view and your understanding of others is pretty stunted.
    If I'm full of BS, then what does this country as of today stand for? Remember not to inject your progressive or European ideals that you love to cling to. It's the same history rewriting BS, where people like you like to omit that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian ideals.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  2. #18
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outsiders71 View Post
    Weren't any of you taught responsibility or that you had to work to get something you wanted? Or did mommy and daddy give you a free ride your whole life so you have no idea what it means to actually earn something on your own merit? The government doesn't owe me anything besides the rights I'm entitled to listed in the Constitution. Why do you feel ENTITLED to something you don't deserve, besides not wanting to do whatever you have to do to get what you want?
    You're assumption is 110% wrong - I've been paying my way since 16 and if you knew half the trouble I've been through you wouldn't be throwing that kind of cheap shot. A major portion of "help" I've had for college consisted of my dad spending my college savings on his back taxes (and he has a six-figure income.)
    You also apparently missed the part where I said that I didn't think it was fair, but that it was necessarily prudent. A child doesn't think it's fair when you take away their toys for misbehaving, but sometimes, when individuals take it upon themselves to abuse the privileges they're allowed, there must be consequences. Property and wealth are privileges that we afford one another in order to forward our common interest in leading peaceful, productive lives. They are not rights; they are not ordained on us by God or defined by any physical laws. At the end of the day, the only thing preventing your neighbor from beating you up and taking your stuff is the common effort of your community. When you use your wealth to pry away the savings of others and manipulate those less fortunate, it's really just a matter of time until the rest of the crowd decides you have too much.
    Ever watch an animal documentary where there's one in the group that always takes a little too much?
    Quote Originally Posted by Outsiders71 View Post
    If I'm full of BS, then what does this country as of today stand for? Remember not to inject your progressive or European ideals that you love to cling to. It's the same history rewriting BS, where people like you like to omit that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian ideals.
    Um, America is founded on European ideals. Where do you think modern Judeo-Christian thought comes from? Or perhaps it was the Ottomans that established the original colonies?
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  3. #19
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimscott View Post
    Be careful with the stereotypes. There are those, like me, who are (Born Again) Christians, Democrat, and just love "the Robin Hood Effect". I absolutely abhor the rich getting richer, at the expense of the rest of us, and then telling us all that they earned, deserved it, and therefore get to keep it. They won't get to keep when they get to the other place, though! They should have used their riches to help other, instead of their greedy, selfish ambitions!
    The government isn't the tithing basket, nor was it meant to replace the Church and its body. It's just meant to be the government. Don't we poor also use the little that we have for our own selfish/greedy means Jim?

    How can wealth redistribution work over time when the rich will just move operations over seas, or just plain quit working? What motivation is there to work hard when the government is providing everything for you? Where does socialism end...are we entitled to houses, automobiles and a starbucks coffee every morning?
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

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    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seedjar View Post
    You're assumption is 110% wrong - I've been paying my way since 16 and if you knew half the trouble I've been through you wouldn't be throwing that kind of cheap shot. A major portion of "help" I've had for college consisted of my dad spending my college savings on his back taxes (and he has a six-figure income.)
    You also apparently missed the part where I said that I didn't think it was fair, but that it was necessarily prudent. A child doesn't think it's fair when you take away their toys for misbehaving, but sometimes, when individuals take it upon themselves to abuse the privileges they're allowed, there must be consequences. Property and wealth are privileges that we afford one another in order to forward our common interest in leading peaceful, productive lives. They are not rights; they are not ordained on us by God or defined by any physical laws. At the end of the day, the only thing preventing your neighbor from beating you up and taking your stuff is the common effort of your community. When you use your wealth to pry away the savings of others and manipulate those less fortunate, it's really just a matter of time until the rest of the crowd decides you have too much.
    Ever watch an animal documentary where there's one in the group that always takes a little too much?
    So Joe, how much do want from Uncle Sam? What does he owe you? What dollar figure do you believe you're ENTITLED to? I'm sorry about your hard life struggles, but you're not the only one. The difference is, I don't believe it's the Governments fault, nor am I entitled to money for my suffering.

    Quote Originally Posted by seedjar View Post
    Um, America is founded on European ideals. Where do you think modern Judeo-Christian thought comes from? Or perhaps it was the Ottomans that established the original colonies?
    ~Joe
    What does the location of the ideals have to do with what I said. Secondly I think it was clear that by European ideals, I was talking about Europe as it is today governmentally and socially. If you want to play Dr. Twist, I can twist your statement as well for I don't believe we ever had any kind of Monarchy here.
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  5. #21
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Lets forget about the number of spins and tangents this topic has taken, does anybody want to try and actually disprove these charges on Obama and ACORN? Or do all of you Obama supporters accept this, just as you accept all the other radical connections Obama has such as Rev. Wright, and Ayers? I mean seriously, how much dirt can you throw over your shoulder before you start noticing a mound? What was it that Obama promised you in a speech that can allow you to ignore all these alarming connections? Do you hate America as much as Obama and his friends do?
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

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    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  7. #23
    swords's Avatar
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    True Jim, I surely don't have any probs with folks who just happen to be Christians (or whatever religion) I myself study many forms of mysticism as one of my hobbies, what I take issue with is the folks in government who wanna run our lives according to their personal religious ideals. Religion is personal and has no place in governmental edicts yet the neo-conservatives insist it is their form of religious governance which was given to them by God and attempt to rule in this manner by passing certain laws which all must follow, not just those in their religion. America has never had rule by Hobbesian "Divine Right", nor do I anticipate such a turn of events.

    Outsiders, America is not a "Christian country" - this is myth propagated by the religious right. Many of the founding fathers were Freemasons who are in turn, students of worldwide mysticism (hence the Illuminated Eye in the Pyramid on the money). "Nature's God" which is mentioned in some early American documents is not the same as the Judeo-Christian god, it's a Masonic term. Have you not read the Treaty with Tripoli signed by John Adams? If Not here is a link to it from Wikipedia: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...yofTripoli.gif Scroll to Article 11. the excerpt is as follows:
    "Art. 11. As the Government of The United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Chrstian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan Nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
    The treaty was signed by all members of the senate with no dissenting voices to any article.

    I made a point of mentioning both the Poor and Blacks... you don't have to be black to be poor. If you are poor, don't have a job and you need help why not ask for it? The worst they can say is no or cut you off if you are one of those dirt bags who abuses it. Nobody of good conscience LIKES being on welfare, I certainly wasn't pleased about being on unemployment back in 2001 but I'm sure glad I was able to get it when I got laid off from one job until I found the job I've had now for 6+ years. If I hadn't had that check every 2 weeks I wouldn't have been able to pay on my car til I got the new job. Hence, I wouldn't be driving to a job today. How'd you like to be paying my way, knowing what a "commie fag junkie" I am? lol

    Anyway, ACORN helps people get on welfare and social security as well assists with other inner city community projects and I philosophically support them and their work as I've said, I see nothing wrong with helping people when they need it. This fiasco with the voter registrations is certainly regrettable and I'm sure with handwriting analysis the FBI and state dept will be able to locate the individuals in the organization who did this. If indeed it was done by ACORN and not some "freelancer" pretending to be working for ACORN. like a Republican looking to thwart new voter regs. It wouldn't surprise me at all as they say, the fewer people who vote always works out well for the Republicans. If they could get anything with ACORN written on it tossed out, in all those "battle ground" states wouldn't that be nice? As George WIll said "It shouldn't matter the quantity of votes a candidate gets but the quality of the votes they get." Maybe we could flash our W2s at the polling stations, and if we don't make enough we don't get to vote!

    The US spends far more on weaponry and getting its tendrils into every country than would cost to give everyone healthcare. I would much rather my tax $ goes to welfare, fixing bridges and roads, levees, etc. than bombs and domestic & international espionage. As far as you helping Katrina victims - good for you - that's very admirable. A woman I work with hosted a family up here. Though I don't see a difference between one kind of help and another. When someone needs help they don't care how they get it or where it comes from, so long as it comes.

    BTW please tattoo this on your brain I'm no liberal - I'm a libertine. "No Gods, No Masters!"

  8. #24
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outsiders71 View Post
    The government isn't the tithing basket, nor was it meant to replace the Church and its body. It's just meant to be the government. Don't we poor also use the little that we have for our own selfish/greedy means Jim?

    How can wealth redistribution work over time when the rich will just move operations over seas, or just plain quit working? What motivation is there to work hard when the government is providing everything for you? Where does socialism end...are we entitled to houses, automobiles and a starbucks coffee every morning?
    Redistribution of wealth come right out of the Old Testament, right from the Exodus experience. The richest ones were told to take care of the poorest so that no one would be without. But then again, their system of government was initially intended to be theocratic. It's a bit harder to compare apples to oranges, when humans are in control.

    There was a point in my life, in my mid-20's when I was out of work, during a recession, and my wife and I went downtown to get help with the heating bill. The caseworker looked at what we had and said, "excuse me... be right back". She conferred with a co-worker and concluded that we could also get public assistance, food stamps, and Medicaid. We were flabbergasted... and graciously accepted the help. And help it did. I had to go out and look for jobs and document them to justify continuance in the program. This was both embarrassing and a godsend at the same time. Eventually, I got a job again.. cleaning fishtanks, local deliveries, and packing fish orders - for $4.50 / hr. That was the best I could do for that time period. Nobody was hiring Environmental Science majors with only a B.A. And apparently, nobody was hiring Education majors for anything more than part time tutoring positions (wife), at that time. College degrees at the B.A. / B.S. level is a joke, for a lot of science and social science majors. You get paid a lousy dollar more an hour in jobs in that field than working as uneducated Home Depot cashier! We're all asking each other why we went to college! And most of us have student loan debt to deal with!

    We don't have a theocratic society. We have a human-run society. Is it any wonder why we fail so miserably? We are all greedy and selfish. It doesn't matter if we are rich or poor. Human hearts are the same. Maybe if we actually had a theocratic government, we'd get it right and the poorest won't be without their needs (not wants).

    Someone brought out that our founding fathers weren't Christians. Apparently, they weren't. They were no doubt religious people, but mostly Christian in name only (nominal christians) Suppsoedly, many were what were called deists. At best, they had watered down Christianity for their utopian societal ideals for this country.

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