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Obama and ACORN, the truth.

I've been wondering if this would ever be discussed during this campaign..
I was afraid it might be completely ignored..

I have a theory..
naturally Democrats would NEVER discuss or even admit that this kind of lending was supported by them..and how it led to the current economic crisis..they will ignore and deny this as much as possible..

but oddly..Republicans would ALSO tend to ignore or downplay this story!
why??
because if they bring it up, they will instantly be accused of Racism..

of course, racism has nothing to do with it..but im sure Democrats will sling that word around anyway..
its their only defense..

thanks for posting that!
now we have Acorn tied to both voter fraud AND encouraging the sub-prime mess..
and Obama linked clearly to both..

IMO there has been no question that democrats fueled the sub-prime disaster..in the name of "fairness" of course..
"its not FAIR that some people can afford a house and others cant! lets give houses to everyone!"

Socialism will destroy this country..if we let it.
Obama is your guy if you believe money should be taken from the "Rich" and given to the poor..even if "the poor" cant pay it back..just give them the money anyway! houses for everyone! yay!
and give the poor lots of money they dont even HAVE to pay back, (the welfare state)
because hey..its just not FAIR otherwise..

and make no mistake, to Democrats, the "Rich" includes YOU!

Scot
 
I still haven't seen anyone bring up the extremely questionable economic theories that allow us to justify this type of business. You can find plenty of instances of short-sighted financial decisions, enough to pin to any political party you set your sights on. But more than the agendas behind those decisions, I think it's the speculative behavior of counting cash before you have it in your hand that is at the core of these issues.
I'm curious, scotty - how will socialism destroy this country? We're in the crapper as it is, with a number of socialist countries pulling well ahead of us in terms of growth, health, employment, education... (I can't actually think of many large, successful nations that don't have socialist policies. Mexico?) Besides which, I don't really think that this is a genuine instance of socialism more than it's an example of loan sharking. We can both probably agree that you shouldn't borrow what you can't pay back, and likewise shouldn't loan what you can't expect to be paid. If banks had been watching out more carefully, they could've loaned less and still had the capital they need to stay afloat. The truth of the matter is that the people who had the power to protect us instead tried to make a buck and overextended themselves. Banks have billions of dollars per year worth of financial advisors on their payroll - poor people don't. I agree that a lot of politicians are shady little moneygrubbers that led us into this, but I resent the assertion that it's the everyday American's desire to own their own home (rather than handing over 50%-80% of their income to modern-day land barons) that put us in this situation.
Would redistribution of wealth be such a terrible thing? I wouldn't call it fair at all, but it is prudent. The wealthy of this nation have a disproportionate sway over our governing process (which is arguably unconstitutional) and have, again and again, demonstrated that they don't have our, or often even their own, best interests at heart. If we insist on giving the rich carte blanche with our nation's welfare then we deserve this and whatever more trouble comes our way.
~Joe
 
Crazy allegations. The problem ACORN has is that they paid people to register voters, and they paid by the signature, which led to individuals trying to make money by putting fake signatures down. There is no allegation of ACORN trying to get fraudulent votes cast, and ACORN has a record of turning in people who did this themselves.

The notion that trying to get housing help for poor people led to the subprime mess is laughable. The lending institutions went on a binge of subprime lending on their own, for their own purposes (greed), and over-leveraged their mortgages in criminally negligent fashion in a desperate attempt to accumulate wealth during the housing bubble. It's no surprise that the Republicans would jump on anything that's designed to help the poor, however. They see no problem with literally hundreds of billions of dollars going to the wealthiest people on the planet, but god forbid someone does something to help out the least fortunate.

For the history-challenged (and history deniers) out there, lending institutions for decades red-lined entire neighborhoods and denied loans to minorities regardless of credit status. Groups like ACORN began to combat this institutional racism, and to advocate for those on the outside of the American dream. They have no authority over lending institutions. And they are not responsible for the decision by the lending institutions to DOUBLE the number of subprime mortgages written in the last few years, nor the decision to leverage these holding sometimes at a 30-1 rate. That greed and negligence, and lack of government oversight, is what caused our economy to collapse.

Capslock
 
I love it that people who promote that they're Christians and Social Conservatives (Republicans) are always the ones who hate welfare, community assistance and equality for people who are different from them. Of course, when their city is wiped out by a hurricane or tornado they want all the same federal aid and other help they would deny others in their various times of need. What they actually want is socialism for some whom they've selected "deserve it" by some imaginary criterion they've devised. I recall arguing with one guy on this very forum who said the NAACP was bad "cos it gives blacks free college", I told him whites are projected to be a minority by 2040 so maybe he could get free college then, he said he already gets free college... So... it's just the poor and the blacks you don't want going to college or advancing themselves - just say it.

Anyway, I still await a good answer as to why helping people is bad... What magic words can anyone tell me to make me think charity and helping others is a bad thing?
 
It's laughable that the McCain campaign first ridicules Obama because he was a community organizer, supposedly since community organizers have such a low standing in society and are not very influential. Then the McCain campaign charges that an association of community organizers (ACORN) has so much power that it can force banks to make bad loans and ultimately cause a global economic disaster. McCain's ACORN strategy isn't working (for obvious reasons), so it has shifted to the terrorist mode. That might amp up his core supporters, those 25% who continue to support Bush. But it will alienate everyone else. McCain has run out of options. He is impulsive and erratic, which will be even more apparent in these next few weeks.
 
I love it that people who promote that they're Christians and Social Conservatives (Republicans) are always the ones who hate welfare, community assistance and equality for people who are different from them. Of course, when their city is wiped out by a hurricane or tornado they want all the same federal aid and other help they would deny others in their various times of need. What they actually want is socialism for some whom they've selected "deserve it" by some imaginary criterion they've devised. I recall arguing with one guy on this very forum who said the NAACP was bad "cos it gives blacks free college", I told him whites are projected to be a minority by 2040 so maybe he could get free college then, he said he already gets free college... So... it's just the poor and the blacks you don't want going to college or advancing themselves - just say it.

Anyway, I still await a good answer as to why helping people is bad... What magic words can anyone tell me to make me think charity and helping others is a bad thing?

exactly as I predicted..
this story has NOTHING to do with racism..
yet some liberals just cant resist making it about racism..

as I said..its their only defense..they cant admit the actual problem is liberal policies..
naturally all liberal policies must be wonderful..
liberal policies CANT be the problem..
so instead it must be about conservatives being racist..
flip the story..

same way that the voter fraud story isnt actually about liberals committing voter fraud..instead the story is about how the evil republicans who fight voter fraud are "intimidating" people..

thats clearly not what the story is about..
but thats the spin liberals have to put it to deflect the attention back to the republicans..

slight of hand..change the story so the other side is evil..while ignoring the actual story..

Scot
 
I'm curious, scotty - how will socialism destroy this country?
~Joe

because we cant afford it..

sure, it would just be wonderful if everyone could have free health care..
thats a worthy goal..
but who is going to PAY for it??
our government cant even run the things its supposed to in a fiscally responsible manner..
the national debt is out of control..
now we are expected to raise taxes even more so that everyone can have free health care and given money to afford a home they cant afford and lets give everyone free cars and free college education and on and on..

sure, in a utopian dreamworld everyone would have free health care and a free college education and an affordable house..

but this isnt a utopian dreamworld..

its the REAL world..

and here in the real world we simply cant afford the kind of socialism liberals want..
they keep trying anyway..and it keeps failing..
the current economic collapse..fueled by the sub-prime mortgage mess is a perfect example of how these liberal socialist policies cant work in the real world..

sure, its a great ideal to give a mortgage to everyone..
the problem is..in the real world, not everyone can afford it..

thats why socialism cant work and thats why socialism will destroy the country if we keep trying it..

Scot
 
  • #10
I love it that people who promote that they're Christians and Social Conservatives (Republicans) are always the ones who hate welfare, community assistance and equality for people who are different from them.

Be careful with the stereotypes. There are those, like me, who are (Born Again) Christians, Democrat, and just love "the Robin Hood Effect". I absolutely abhor the rich getting richer, at the expense of the rest of us, and then telling us all that they earned, deserved it, and therefore get to keep it. They won't get to keep when they get to the other place, though! They should have used their riches to help other, instead of their greedy, selfish ambitions!
 
  • #11
Uh, by the words of the McCain-Palin ticket themselves, we're the richest, most powerful nation in the world. If we can't afford to give everybody free health care, how can Canada do it? How do most of the little backwards nations in Europe manage to give free higher education? (Even to immigrants, I'll add.) There's plenty of money when the top 0.05% of the wealthy aren't taking it all for themselves. Seriously - find an estimate of the global net worth and then divide it by the current population. I dare you.
~Joe
 
  • #12
The best standard of living in the world is in the countries in northern Europe where capitalism and socialism are carefully balanced. We do the same, we're just imbalanced right now on the side of capitalism, and that's why we're in quite the fix right now.

Casplock
 
  • #13
I'm curious, scotty - how will socialism destroy this country?
~Joe

because we cant afford it..


Americans pay twice as much per capita for health care compared with residents of countries with socialized medicine. Yet, statistics show that the health of Americans is worse. Furthermore, the 47 million uninsured Americans have inadequate access to health care. Americans are paying more and getting less. The free market simply isn't working, at least when it comes to health care.
 
  • #14
I still haven't seen anyone bring up the extremely questionable economic theories that allow us to justify this type of business. You can find plenty of instances of short-sighted financial decisions, enough to pin to any political party you set your sights on. But more than the agendas behind those decisions, I think it's the speculative behavior of counting cash before you have it in your hand that is at the core of these issues.
I'm curious, scotty - how will socialism destroy this country? We're in the crapper as it is, with a number of socialist countries pulling well ahead of us in terms of growth, health, employment, education... (I can't actually think of many large, successful nations that don't have socialist policies. Mexico?) Besides which, I don't really think that this is a genuine instance of socialism more than it's an example of loan sharking. We can both probably agree that you shouldn't borrow what you can't pay back, and likewise shouldn't loan what you can't expect to be paid. If banks had been watching out more carefully, they could've loaned less and still had the capital they need to stay afloat. The truth of the matter is that the people who had the power to protect us instead tried to make a buck and overextended themselves. Banks have billions of dollars per year worth of financial advisors on their payroll - poor people don't. I agree that a lot of politicians are shady little moneygrubbers that led us into this, but I resent the assertion that it's the everyday American's desire to own their own home (rather than handing over 50%-80% of their income to modern-day land barons) that put us in this situation.
Would redistribution of wealth be such a terrible thing? I wouldn't call it fair at all, but it is prudent. The wealthy of this nation have a disproportionate sway over our governing process (which is arguably unconstitutional) and have, again and again, demonstrated that they don't have our, or often even their own, best interests at heart. If we insist on giving the rich carte blanche with our nation's welfare then we deserve this and whatever more trouble comes our way.
~Joe

I think the real question here is what are American values? So many people, including the ones I see on here have lost touch of what this country stands for and represents. If anything, this election is all about values. Do we keep or "change" our identity? So many people here cry boohoo, the wealthy have more money than I do..so what! I'm by NO means wealthy at all, infact I have more debt than wealth. Some partially my fault, others college loans and mabye partially to the economy. HOWEVER you don't see me suggesting that we pick-pocket other people to pay for our endeavors. No. I was raised American. That is, I have to get up off my arse, go to college, and work to pay for what I want. Weren't any of you taught responsibility or that you had to work to get something you wanted? Or did mommy and daddy give you a free ride your whole life so you have no idea what it means to actually earn something on your own merit? The government doesn't owe me anything besides the rights I'm entitled to listed in the Constitution. Why do you feel ENTITLED to something you don't deserve, besides not wanting to do whatever you have to do to get what you want?
 
  • #15
That's a pretty deep load of BS, Outsiders. Your idea of what the country stands for and represents is just your point of view and your understanding of others is pretty stunted.
 
  • #16
I love it that people who promote that they're Christians and Social Conservatives (Republicans) are always the ones who hate welfare, community assistance and equality for people who are different from them. Of course, when their city is wiped out by a hurricane or tornado they want all the same federal aid and other help they would deny others in their various times of need. What they actually want is socialism for some whom they've selected "deserve it" by some imaginary criterion they've devised. I recall arguing with one guy on this very forum who said the NAACP was bad "cos it gives blacks free college", I told him whites are projected to be a minority by 2040 so maybe he could get free college then, he said he already gets free college... So... it's just the poor and the blacks you don't want going to college or advancing themselves - just say it.

Anyway, I still await a good answer as to why helping people is bad... What magic words can anyone tell me to make me think charity and helping others is a bad thing?

WOW, you are totally out of the ballpark on this one. Liberal isn't left enough of a definition.

Christians/Conservatives are the biggest donors to charities via pocketbook and relief efforts. Just take a look at Biden/Obama's tax returns, Biden with 0.6% of his yearly income and Obama with 1.5%. I've never heard of a local church not helping a family in need, based on criteria.

Please explain to me why you believe Blacks, specifically, deserve more help from the government? They have been given the tools needed to be successful, and actually have one up with Affirmative Action which is essentially reverse discrimination. So you believe by giving Blacks a paycheck every month for X amount of dollars is somehow going to fix everything?

BTW, I take offense to your comment about hurricanes...In 2005, during my spring break, I went down to Slydell, Louisiana for the whole week to help out Katrina victims. I stayed in a church, took cold showers, ate hospital quality food, worked my arse off from morning to evening, and slept on bare floor. I had to gut out houses down to the studs and wood frames. I didn't get paid a single dime. I actually had to chip in to pay for gas (drove from Ohio), and pay for whatever else I needed. The church based out of Slydell, called First Baptist Church wasn't 'selective' either. We helped people of all backgrounds, some who didn't even believe in God. I did this to serve, support and love the people in need. I can guarantee you that no matter how much I would have paid the government via taxes, they could have not done the job that my team and others from across the nation did down in New Orleans. That's the difference.
 
  • #17
That's a pretty deep load of BS, Outsiders. Your idea of what the country stands for and represents is just your point of view and your understanding of others is pretty stunted.

If I'm full of BS, then what does this country as of today stand for? Remember not to inject your progressive or European ideals that you love to cling to. It's the same history rewriting BS, where people like you like to omit that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian ideals.
 
  • #18
Weren't any of you taught responsibility or that you had to work to get something you wanted? Or did mommy and daddy give you a free ride your whole life so you have no idea what it means to actually earn something on your own merit? The government doesn't owe me anything besides the rights I'm entitled to listed in the Constitution. Why do you feel ENTITLED to something you don't deserve, besides not wanting to do whatever you have to do to get what you want?

You're assumption is 110% wrong - I've been paying my way since 16 and if you knew half the trouble I've been through you wouldn't be throwing that kind of cheap shot. A major portion of "help" I've had for college consisted of my dad spending my college savings on his back taxes (and he has a six-figure income.)
You also apparently missed the part where I said that I didn't think it was fair, but that it was necessarily prudent. A child doesn't think it's fair when you take away their toys for misbehaving, but sometimes, when individuals take it upon themselves to abuse the privileges they're allowed, there must be consequences. Property and wealth are privileges that we afford one another in order to forward our common interest in leading peaceful, productive lives. They are not rights; they are not ordained on us by God or defined by any physical laws. At the end of the day, the only thing preventing your neighbor from beating you up and taking your stuff is the common effort of your community. When you use your wealth to pry away the savings of others and manipulate those less fortunate, it's really just a matter of time until the rest of the crowd decides you have too much.
Ever watch an animal documentary where there's one in the group that always takes a little too much?
If I'm full of BS, then what does this country as of today stand for? Remember not to inject your progressive or European ideals that you love to cling to. It's the same history rewriting BS, where people like you like to omit that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian ideals.
Um, America is founded on European ideals. Where do you think modern Judeo-Christian thought comes from? Or perhaps it was the Ottomans that established the original colonies?
~Joe
 
  • #19
Be careful with the stereotypes. There are those, like me, who are (Born Again) Christians, Democrat, and just love "the Robin Hood Effect". I absolutely abhor the rich getting richer, at the expense of the rest of us, and then telling us all that they earned, deserved it, and therefore get to keep it. They won't get to keep when they get to the other place, though! They should have used their riches to help other, instead of their greedy, selfish ambitions!

The government isn't the tithing basket, nor was it meant to replace the Church and its body. It's just meant to be the government. Don't we poor also use the little that we have for our own selfish/greedy means Jim?

How can wealth redistribution work over time when the rich will just move operations over seas, or just plain quit working? What motivation is there to work hard when the government is providing everything for you? Where does socialism end...are we entitled to houses, automobiles and a starbucks coffee every morning?
 
  • #20
You're assumption is 110% wrong - I've been paying my way since 16 and if you knew half the trouble I've been through you wouldn't be throwing that kind of cheap shot. A major portion of "help" I've had for college consisted of my dad spending my college savings on his back taxes (and he has a six-figure income.)
You also apparently missed the part where I said that I didn't think it was fair, but that it was necessarily prudent. A child doesn't think it's fair when you take away their toys for misbehaving, but sometimes, when individuals take it upon themselves to abuse the privileges they're allowed, there must be consequences. Property and wealth are privileges that we afford one another in order to forward our common interest in leading peaceful, productive lives. They are not rights; they are not ordained on us by God or defined by any physical laws. At the end of the day, the only thing preventing your neighbor from beating you up and taking your stuff is the common effort of your community. When you use your wealth to pry away the savings of others and manipulate those less fortunate, it's really just a matter of time until the rest of the crowd decides you have too much.
Ever watch an animal documentary where there's one in the group that always takes a little too much?

So Joe, how much do want from Uncle Sam? What does he owe you? What dollar figure do you believe you're ENTITLED to? I'm sorry about your hard life struggles, but you're not the only one. The difference is, I don't believe it's the Governments fault, nor am I entitled to money for my suffering.

Um, America is founded on European ideals. Where do you think modern Judeo-Christian thought comes from? Or perhaps it was the Ottomans that established the original colonies?
~Joe

What does the location of the ideals have to do with what I said. Secondly I think it was clear that by European ideals, I was talking about Europe as it is today governmentally and socially. If you want to play Dr. Twist, I can twist your statement as well for I don't believe we ever had any kind of Monarchy here.
 
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