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Re: Tony and Sunbelles Stolen Plants

  • Thread starter obregon562
  • Start date
  • #21
From the proboards:

"The campanulata x truncata was purchased from my friend elissa jackson. Who lives in connecticut and attended the new england carnivorous plant show on 9-7-2008. I also received plants from my friend michelle lamountain who lives in australia, she doesnt grow cp, but she attended the show for me and sent me a few plants nothing special though."

"my friend elissa jackson and michelle la mountain sent me plants from both shows, one in australia and one in new england. thats all i know. I told them both to get me any hybrids with veitchii, truncata, or lowii. they arent really plant people. They sent me camanulata x truncata, sib x max, thorelli x truncata, truncata x ventricosa, truncata, truncata x maxima and nd a few other common hybrids. "


A few things come to mind.

The NECPS Show was on the 27th and 28th of September, 2008.

OK, we do have a sign-in book from the NECPS Show. I believe Charley or John Phillip has it. I wonder if Elissa's name is in it.

There were only two vendors at the NECPS Show: Black Jungle, and the NECPS table. It should be pretty easy to figure out what neps were and were not for sale there... Usually, any special Neps from society members would be limited to the NECPS back room members-only silent auction and we would all know about it. Anyone have a printout of the sales list from the Black Jungle booth?
 
  • #22
Here is my post on the matter...

In a way, i somehow feel that this is all my fault, that the topic flared up so badly because of information i provided to Tony. I received a macrophylla from Dom a week ago, in a trade, Tony asked me for the information on where i received it, i provided it. I did not think it would go this far, and i truely feel sorry for the people who were robbed, this i had nothing to do with obviously, but i still feel bad for drama ive stirred up in the CP community by providing information on where i received plants, I cannot say with certainty, but the few times ive spoken with Mr. Gravine, he seemed like a very nice guy, though you cannot judge a book by its cover, and i do realize that Sunbelle and Tony have some pretty circumstantial evidence pointing twords Dom himself, but we do need more proof other than the "You were in the area at the time of the incident." I do hope the true theif is caught, and i hope no fingers are directed at me at this time, but i have one question for you Mr. Gravine, why did you put a false return address and name on the package you sent me? It is strange, your name is not Richard Hughes, and your address is not in Hallendale Florida, according to information, you are on street i will not name in Ft. Lauderdale, Hallendale is south of Ft. Lauderdale, i am aware...But i do find it somewhat odd...I am not pointing fingers at anyone however until i see enough proof to prove someone of this crime.
Kris
 
  • #23
In a way, i somehow feel that this is all my fault, that the topic flared up so badly because of information i provided to Tony. I received a macrophylla from Dom a week ago, in a trade, Tony asked me for the information on where i received it, i provided it. I did not think it would go this far, and i truely feel sorry for the people who were robbed, this i had nothing to do with obviously, but i still feel bad for drama ive stirred up in the CP community by providing information on where i received plants

I don't understand how this is relevant to the situation at hand. How does telling Tony where you got a plant lead to the accusations of another member stealing plants? Unless I missed something somewhere...

xvart.
 
  • #24
I don't know why you should feel guilty. You were right in providing the information. What conclusions and evidence tony and sunbelle drew from it (what you gave may not have been significant at all) and other sources are certainly not under your control. And truth be told Dom seem to be relatively inept in regards to his own defense.
 
  • #25
It's sad to know this kinda thing occurs. I know it's a bad scene like this quite often in the Orchid world. I quit visiting one orchid board cos of all this sort of backstabbing, robbing, narcing on people to the Wildlife mafia if they have plants others want (including Orchid book authors I thought I respected).

Greed (in this case theft of plants) I guess is not exclusive to Orchids. I hope if there is real evidence against this guy the two affected guys will go to the authorites (da fuzz) and not just ruin this guy online as happens on that Orchid board (I don't recall the name). Though, I know both of these guys (Tony & Sunbelle) are good dudes from my old terraforum days and I've had good experiences with them back when I was a lil' Nepper a couple years ago before my dad got sick and I sold all my "babies". I'm not taking sides, though a wrong return name/addresses is kinda weird, wrong flower show dates, etc. Could it be that the plant was not being shipped with the right phyto documents and he didn't wanna get nailed if the package got seized since some states do require that hassle? That idea would explain that kind of discrepancy to me.
 
  • #26
I told tony, who inturn told Sunbelle, xvart. because they are in contact with eachother, it has every to do with this situation, because i told tony where i received the plant, who then went and talked to Sunbele and Dom themselves, Dom got defensive and posted the huge rant on pitcherplants.proboards, thus causing a giant flurry of drama of everyone bashing Dom before substanstial evidence was given that could prove him of anything more than just being in the area at the time of the thefts.

i feel bad because in some way, i feel like i am the one at fault for how crap was handled.
Apparently, since Tony had Macrophylla stolen, he thought it strange one came up in trade so quickly. And asked me where i got it, assuming the macrophylla in question was possibly one of the plants stolen from his nursery
 
  • #27
I told tony, who inturn told Sunbelle, xvart. because they are in contact with eachother, it has every to do with this situation, because i told tony where i received the plant, who then went and talked to Sunbele and Dom themselves, Dom got defensive and posted the huge rant on pitcherplants.proboards, thus causing a giant flurry of drama of everyone bashing Dom before substanstial evidence was given that could prove him of anything more than just being in the area at the time of the thefts.

i feel bad because in some way, i feel like i am the one at fault for how crap was handled.
Apparently, since Tony had Macrophylla stolen, he thought it strange one came up in trade so quickly. And asked me where i got it, assuming the macrophylla in question was possibly one of the plants stolen from his nursery

Gotcha, I forgot that Tony had several N. macrophylla stolen. Interesting ethical dilemma here, though... I don't think you should feel bad in the slightest. The most condemning alleged evidence is not the N. macrophylla but the ebay listing, but it certainly is interesting. I just didn't see what connection you were trying to make.

xvart.
 
  • #28
Yes, the ebay item is very good evidence indeed, the thing i feel bad about is the drama that has flared up from this event, if it turns out to be Dom, however, i am glad i helped.
 
  • #29
SK,

That is huge. A different return address and a macrophylla of the same size...wow. Dom better start giving names and dates ASAP.
 
  • #30
Dom makes claims of receiving a shipment plants from Australia. Yet in a thread on CPUK where he is asking about getting an order form a certain nursery down there he clearly states that he DOES NOT have a permit. See the screen shot below

Picture3.png


Here is the specific thread:

http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=28774&hl=Exotica

While there are ways to "dodge" customs with shipments they entail small packages not large ones capable of holding numerous fair sized, well grown Nepenthes.
 
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  • #31
I told tony, who inturn told Sunbelle, xvart. because they are in contact with eachother, it has every to do with this situation, because i told tony where i received the plant, who then went and talked to Sunbele and Dom themselves, Dom got defensive and posted the huge rant on pitcherplants.proboards, thus causing a giant flurry of drama of everyone bashing Dom before substanstial evidence was given that could prove him of anything more than just being in the area at the time of the thefts.

i feel bad because in some way, i feel like i am the one at fault for how crap was handled.
Apparently, since Tony had Macrophylla stolen, he thought it strange one came up in trade so quickly. And asked me where i got it, assuming the macrophylla in question was possibly one of the plants stolen from his nursery

Why don't you take a pic of your Macrophylla and email it to Tony? On the other board, someone stated that no two plants look identical, so maybe he can identify it as his plant? I didn't even want to get involved in this, it's just a thought. I wouldn't blame yourself though, even if this Dom person isn't the thief. You were asked a simple question and you answered it. No biggie.
 
  • #32
Trapper there is a pic i recently posted in the nep section, There is no way to identify it without a pic, and even then, it has been quite a few months....
 
  • #33
Yeah I figured that it has been too long for it to look the same.
 
  • #34
Yeah I figured that it has been too long for it to look the same.

Not necessarily. I have a x Predator that still has lower leaves from last year on it. So while the plant may not have the same pitchers it very likely could have the same leaves with the same arrangement and same blemishes and what not. But you would still need to do a comparison between past and current pics.
 
  • #35
I can only say I hope the information that has been provided to the police result in the capture and prosecution of the thief. Burglary is burglary. Doesn't matter if its a plant or a stereo.

The thief should be ashamed of him/herself. I still say...'fess up, give 'em back and learn a lesson in life.

I feel bad for Tony and Trent. The facts as presented look bad...
 
  • #36
I can only say I hope the information that has been provided to the police result in the capture and prosecution of the thief. Burglary is burglary. Doesn't matter if its a plant or a stereo.

The thief should be ashamed of him/herself. I still say...'fess up, give 'em back and learn a lesson in life.

Here here i second that...
 
  • #37
yup! with the facts that have been presented and also the fact that the hybrid in question is still fairly very new, it clearly seems that there is a connection to the recent thefts. Communication has already stopped from Dom on the other board as he probably realises that the jig is up. I really hope that Tony and Trent/Michelle can recover some of their plants.
 
  • #38
I really hope that Tony and Trent/Michelle can recover some of their plants.
Agreed. However, since it doesn't sound like the police did a quick swoop-in and take pics of everything he owns at the beginning .... if you were a thief and felt them closing in on you and you had a lot of 'evidence' hanging around ... what would you do with that evidence??

Disclaimer: I have no clue if this guy is guilty....
 
  • #39
communication has already stopped from Dom on the other board as he probably realises that the jig is up.

Not indicative of guilt. Even if he is innocent that would not be surprising. How long to you stick around a place that thinks you are a thief? Uuh... bad example... but staying around in a hostile environment would not be something I would be keen on.
 
  • #40
I thought I would share a similar experience I had (even though it is a bit off-topic).

I run a custom shop, and build custom cars and trucks. I built a custom chopper based off of a 1974 Honda CB750 motorcycle for myself. When the bike was done, I posted pics in a forum that I frequented for old CB's. A guy in the forum found out that I lived near him, and wanted to come by and see the bike. I had talked to him a good deal, so I said sure. He rode over one afternoon, and we went for a short ride. I even let him ride the bike. He said numerous times how much he liked my chop more than his, and was particularly interested in a box that I had made to contain the starter button, keyswitch, etc. I showed him how I had the start button wired up.

Less than 2 weeks later, someone kicked in the door to my shop, and stole the bike. I immediately suspected this guy, because he knew how the start switch was wired, and expressed how much he liked the bike. I never accused him, although I did mention his name in the police report, and they called him to let it know it had been stolen. It seemed like a no-brainer.

A week later, the police called me to let me know they had found the bike. The bike was extremely difficult to ride due to the long front forks, and someone had wrecked it less than 10 miles from my house. They later connected it with a man who was picked up near the accident, and treated at a local emergency room for road rash and a broken foot. He was unrelated to the guy from the forums.

So, even though it has been said numerous time... Innocent until proven guilty!
 
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