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Thread: Book: The Savvy Converts Guide to Choosing A Religion

  1. #49
    Got Drosera? Indiana Gardener's Avatar
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    Westernization can be corruptive. We don't always see it until we socialize with a different culture to see how it is from the outside. From my experience the Italian and Japanese cultures have pointed it out very well to me. Both of which are becoming more westernized.

  2. #50
    Outsiders71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktulu View Post
    OK first off the expelled all Arabs including all the Christian and Jewish peoples that lived there. Secondly many of the Palestinians that were expelled were the decedents of the original Jews that had converted to Christianity and Islam. Third the Jews took the land by slaughtering the Canaanites whom were the first recorded people to live there, it even says so in the same book they use to claim their right too it. Lastly Jews were living peacefully and quite well among the Palestinians until the UN and the Western powers said it was their land outright. Last the only evidence the Jews use to support their claim to the land is the Torah which if we go by religious texts we are going to need to give a lot of places to several different groups of people at the same time.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDFLn8kdtUg

    Does this video have any validity or truth?
    James 1:17

    "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

  3. #51
    Got Drosera? Indiana Gardener's Avatar
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    That is a good article, Outsiders71. I'm terrible with timelines, but I think it explained it well. I'd say after 4,000 yrs it should be theirs. There should be a statute of limitations on land claims. LOL Also, Israel is so tiny. Muslims already have nearly all the rest of the middle east. Why fight over such a little area? It doesn't seem logical. It's like saying I have 100 whole apples of my own, but I must have that slice of apple from that youngster across the way as well.

    Israel has less land mass than NJ. It represents 1/16th of 1% of the Arab land in the middle east. Israel has 12,877 square miles and their 21 Arab nation neighbors comprise 8,368,272 square miles. No matter if the west supposedly spurred it on (and I can imagine the west inciting greed), it's petty to want it too.

  4. #52
    Sundewist Dimka's Avatar
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    I have a few muslim friends and I've spoken with them in regard to the whole "kill the unbelievers" thing in context of "eye for eye" and other things... What they told me is that Islam indeed teaches that, however it also says that if you forgive the unbeliever instead, you will be graced by Allah more than if you'd have killed him. Now that I read it, it sounds kind of cheesy, but that is the best I can do translating what they told me to English.
    They also said that this whole violence is caused by misinterpretation of the scriptures. Which is probably true. I have no islamic experience at all, so I wouldn't know.
    Religions should not be taken lightly. It is all-or-nothing principle. Faith is not a chinese buffet where you pick what you like and leave the rest. You either accept it all, or not at all, otherwise you're but a mere pseudo religious hypocrite.
    Now regarding Judaism. I know first hand that it teaches that "goi" or non-jews are less that human. "A jew is above all other peoples as those people are above mere animals" - again translating to English from Kitsur Shulhan Aruh (probably didn't spell it right). I also know that the 10 commandments do not apply if the crimes are made against non jews. How do I know? 4 years in kosher catering teaches you something. Especially when the rabbi tells us that we are animals and not human. I also did some reading as well. Most jews do not follow this teaching to such fanatical extremism though. Although I saw with my own two eyes how a group of jews started spitting all over a priest who was just passing by. He literally got covered by it. That was in Jerusalem. Don't believe me? Oh well, what can I do? You only have my word for it. Now that I think about it, in my months in Israel and Egypt, I never had problems with Arabs... well some kid tried to rip me off, but got hit with a newspaper by a nearby standing man, and came back and gave back the money. By the way, I am a member of the clergy as well, so the above said incident is really painful to me.
    Christianity. I am a christian, belonging to one of the "super traditionalist" orthodox churches. The official churches do not like us because we criticize them - pointing out their deviations from the teaching. For that, they heavily prosecute us (especially in Russia, even right now), displaying true christian love (taking away or burning churches, beating the clergy, stabbing/beating/abducting of bishops and other acts of love). In my short years I've seen terrible terrible things from christians. They gave me more sorrow than anyone else. You cannot even begin to imagine the corruption of people who call themselves christians, especially in monasteries (i lived in one for 4 years, but no, I didn't see anything gay. I saw everything but gay there actually). However that did not shake my faith. I still believe what the orthodoxy teaches. People are corrupt, not the religion.
    Of course if you start picking things out from christian teachings you could end up with "Judah went and hung himself" "So do you in my memory" "And thus you'll inherit the Kingdom of Heaven"
    When you start picking out things you like and dislike, it just goes downhill from there.
    It is hard to always be a human being... people get in the way.

    An education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease. It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
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  5. #53
    白人看不懂 Drosera36's Avatar
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    Born and raised an Atheist, I am often unbiased, although I tend to lean away from Christianity.

    What I've found is that the "bond" that people of religions other than Christianity have tends to be stronger than Christians. For example, most people in my school wouldn't say they have many views on religion, hardly ever go to church, and are agnostic. Those people are Christian.

    I've found that Jews are more serious, although not really "outspoken" with their religion. They go to temple all the time, usually can read Hebrew, and I haven't asked many, but they do tend to believe in their god considerably more. They also cannot eat certain foods, and they seem to follow this very well.

    Muslims, I've found, tend to have the strongest "bond" with their religion out of all three major religions. I volunteered at an Islamic center for roughly 2 weeks, and their connection with their religion is very strong. Their beliefs, their ideals. They pray a lot; 5 times a day I think. They wash before they pray. They cannot eat certain foods, wear certain clothes (shorts aren't good because your knees cannot show during prayers), etc. I think that their "bond" is stronger because of the ideals and teachings of this religion; they're considerably stricter.

    I, personally, believe in no god(s). I do, however, tend to lean towards "animism", or a mild belief in spirits or energy inside living organisms. Makes sense to me. I realize that there is little scientific proof on this, but I've found it comforting to believe in this "life force", but it's not like I pray or anything.

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  6. #54
    rattler's Avatar
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    As for the who took whose land and opporessed whom, everyone's ancestry was guilty of it at some point and lots of people have died for it. Thousands of wrongs don't make a right.
    my point was going to be every race is just as guilty as any other.....everyone wants to point the finger at the "white europeans" but to do so is to ignore the lessons of history and current events.......the native americans were not living on this continent peacefully before the europeans showed up various tribes were doing their damndest to wipe each other out.....the Aztecs and Mayans sure werent sacrificing thousands of europeans to their gods.....locally the Lakota and Assiniboine were doing their damndest to kill each other off....and to this day have a deep hatred of each other......the Arabs have been doing it to each other forever, so have the africans and asians aswell as most everybody trying to take out everyone else at one point or another......and yes thousands of wrongs dont make a right but to sit and point fingers at the whites only is pure ignorance......hell lots of african slaves were purchased from black and arab slave traders.....one of my ancestors was brought over as a slave before we were a country....he werent from Africa, he was white and Irish.......
    cervid serial killer
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  7. #55
    "Oh, now he's a philosophizer" Baylorguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swords View Post
    Other religions aren't "falsehoods" to those who follow them, they're just as equally true to those people as yours is to you.

    I try my best not to hold anyone's reality tunnel (worldview) against them. I take a great enjoyment in learning about how people perceive the world. We all see the world differently but I like to look for the reasons why we do. Religion is one way which affects the way we perceive the world, politics is another. It matters not if I agree with anyone but that I can try to learn something from the people I meet. Too often people take offense when everyone is put on a level playing field and informed that their beliefs are equally as valid as anyone else's and not any more valid than anyone elses. If people are never viewed as philosophical equals we can never learn anything from one another.
    Quote Originally Posted by rattler_mt View Post
    my point was going to be every race is just as guilty as any other.....everyone wants to point the finger at the "white europeans" but to do so is to ignore the lessons of history and current events.......the native americans were not living on this continent peacefully before the europeans showed up various tribes were doing their damndest to wipe each other out.....the Aztecs and Mayans sure werent sacrificing thousands of europeans to their gods.....locally the Lakota and Assiniboine were doing their damndest to kill each other off....and to this day have a deep hatred of each other......the Arabs have been doing it to each other forever, so have the africans and asians aswell as most everybody trying to take out everyone else at one point or another......and yes thousands of wrongs dont make a right but to sit and point fingers at the whites only is pure ignorance......hell lots of african slaves were purchased from black and arab slave traders.....one of my ancestors was brought over as a slave before we were a country....he werent from Africa, he was white and Irish.......
    Couldn't agree more. In the words of Malcolm Muggeridge, "There is no such thing as new news. Just old news happening to new people." It's a continous ebb and flow, and nothing is new under the sun. People have been killing for thousands of years for countless reasons.

  8. #56
    swords's Avatar
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    "Irish Need Not Apply"
    I saw that once in a picture of old New York.

    You'd think with everyone having been dumped on, killed, slave traded, etc. as Rattler points out, which I agree with. We as a human race should have learned by now how the idea of WE are better than THEY simply isn't working as a mindset and begin true cooperation and elimination of ideologies of superiority (religious, political or otherwise) Though I think it's slowly coming along, especially with the invention of the web and the global marketplace where people with vastly different ideas can come to get for good discussion (such as this one tonight). I think, and pray (an expression I use to signify intense hope in my own terminology), that relativism is slowly creeping throughout the world, look out extremists on all sides!

    "As for me and my toenail clippings, we will go to bed." -Swords 10:14

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