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Book: The Savvy Converts Guide to Choosing A Religion

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  • #21
Wasn't meant to be a ridicule. I just like to get down to basics; down to the nitty nitty nitty nitty nitty gritty. I'm remaining open minded, and perhaps the only one here who's not taken offense, certainly not because I couldn't have.

I am willing to learn here. Does or does not islam teach to kill [murder] non-believers?

If it does, that is actually a direct contradictory to buddhism, that teaches all life is sacred and not to be killed. So how can both of those religions be equal in that respect? Life and death are as far apart as the east is from the west. People are equal, but philosophies can't be.
 
  • #22
You'll have to take the tenets of Islam up with Ahmad if he feels brave enough to pop in and give us his take, not being a Muslim or knowing enough of their scriptures I can't speak for them.

As far as my subjective experience with Muslims goes, my dad lives in a Somali Muslim neighborhood (the largest Somali community in the US) and we're both non-believers to their religion. So far neither of us have been killed in all the years he's lived there. I work with a number of Somali Muslims as well as persons of various world faiths mostly Asian Buddhists but some Hindus as well. Very few WASPs at my job. ;)

As I said, all religions are equally true to those who practice them. What's true for you is not true for me.
Hence "truth" to a Buddhist is not the same "truth" to a Muslim, a christian, a druid, etc.

Why would you have cause to be offended in any of this conversation?
 
  • #23
By my understanding, only current day extremists carry out the full commands of islam. Most modern believers seem to pick and choose which parts they want to believe and which not. But I could be wrong? That is something found in all religions.

>Why would you have cause to be offended in any of this conversation?>

It might pass you by blindly, but how about the equation of the Son of God to a statue and such. Just for the record, I summed up my beliefs as briefly as any of the others based on what I (think) know about them to keep it fair.

I am not trying to be offensive. I'm trying to come from a standpoint of genuine curiosity of how one philosophy can be equal to another if they state different things? I simply don't see how it can be. I can walk into a garage and believe I'm a car. It doesn't make me a car. I can even got to the barn and cluck like a chicken, but it doesn't make me a chicken. Belief alone doesn't make something true. If I'm ill-informed on the matter of public decency, I may wake in the morning, take a shower, and walk out of the house nude. If the law says it's not ok, it doesn't matter what I believe. I'd still go into lockup. I could sincerely believe it was ok, but I would be sincerely wrong.
 
  • #24
how about the equation of the Son of God to a statue and such.
I think I see what you're asking. My response is in what respect is a statue of Buddha any different than a statue of Jesus or Mary? I've seen them in almost every church or graveyard I've ever been in, often surrounded by candles. Is one made of magical plaster that makes it not idolatry?

Islam is the only religion I know of which forbids any depiction of living creatures (man or beast) if you wanna be iron willed on the whole statue thing.

The garage and chicken analogies went over my head but what I wanna know is what is it that makes your religion more true than anyone else's if not your belief that makes it so? What sort of tangible proof (physical evidence = not just "belief alone") do you have, which you seem to be alluding to, that proves that yours is "the one" over all others? If it's not based on the belief that yours is the one (because your book says so) what is the claim based on?
 
  • #25
>Is one made of magical plaster that makes it not idolatry?>
Absolutely not. If you pray to a statue of Jesus, that is idolatry just the same. The statue being a statue doesn't make it an idol. It's the practice it's reserved for. If I picked up a field stone and prayed to it, it becomes my idol. Anything can be an idol. Heck, one could pray to toenail clippings and make that their idol or god. There's a new religion to start, and that book will even guide you as to how. (joke) ;-) I'm often afraid that I come off as snide. I hope that isn't the case. I'm a very jokey, lighthearted person.

>Islam is the only religion I know of which forbids any depiction of living creatures (man or beast).>
Some of the stricter sects of Amish go against photographs due to the Bible verse about graven images being taken out of context.
 
  • #26
LOL! Nothing wrong with sarcasm at all. Sometimes jokes can be better and more freeing than yelling! I think people should all laugh a whole lot more and not be so uptight. :)

I agree with you that any iconic worship is idolatry, yet there are many, many Catholics out there who are "Mary watchers" as my aunt calls them (who is catholic BTW). I don't however agree that there is anything wrong with it. If you wanna pray to toenail clippings or a Philistine statue of Dagon, be my guest! One book titled Astonish Yourself; 101 Experiments in Everyday Philosophy suggests turning an old phone book into a bible like object and venerating it and reading from it everyday for a week or a month and see what you think of the experience and then when you go back to venerating your old religious book see if you feel any differently than you did before the phone book experiment.

But I'd still like to hear your answer to my query:

"... what I wanna know is what is it that makes your religion more true than anyone else's if not your belief that makes it so? What sort of tangible proof (not just "belief alone") do you have, which you seem to be alluding to, that proves that yours is "the one" over all others? If it's not based on the belief that yours is the one (because your book says so) what physical proof is the claim based on?"
 
  • #27
You'll have to take the tenets of Islam up with Ahmad if he feels brave enough to pop in and give us his take, not being a Muslim or knowing enough of their scriptures I can't speak for them.


Here I am! :-D


So, any questions about Islam?
 
  • #28
It's not difficult to break the main points down into less than that;
islam - pray to a dead man and kill nonbelievers
christianity - pray to a spirit who lives forever, love one another, care for the poor (non-believers included), forgive your enemies, etc



Um, we don't pray to a dead man and we're not taught to kill nonbelievers.
 
  • #29
islam - pray to a dead man and kill nonbelievers
christianity - pray to a spirit who lives forever, love one another, care for the poor (non-believers included), forgive your enemies, forcibly convert other to your "better" religion, etc
buddhism - basically you bow before a statue until you are enlightened enough that you become your own god. Wow, I'd be in trouble if I was my god. How does that help me? LOL

I find this highly, highly offensive. But that is to be expected from a narrow minded racist christian such as yourself.







Not so funny now huh?

Nothing wrong with liking your religion, but it is wrong to bash others without knowing a thing about them...a key reason i dont like many religions.

BUT i do love the book swords. funny stuff, but apparently we cant take jokes in america anymore. i want to start my own religion now haha. ;)
 
  • #30
They whole Mary thing can be taken too far into idolatry too. The Bible doesn't say all idols, except for Mary, are wrong. It says idolatry, any of it. There are many forms of Christianity. Everyone interprets the Bible differently. The one fundamental core is a belief in Christ.

I guess it comes down to personal experience, results to prayers and so on.

I know it's not come up yet, but I feel compassion especially for Hindus. India is such a poverty stricken nation plagued by starvation. Very much due to poor families feeding their cows above their own needs. They won't kill the cows or ride the villages of them, because it's their god, and the cows defecate and urinate in the same water supplies that starving children play in, drink from, and the family washes in. It's quite sad to be into idolatry so far to that point.

>Um, we don't pray to a dead man and we're not taught to kill nonbelievers.>
Ok, Ahmad. Then I was mistaken. No hard feelings I hope.

Wow, I don't know how racism got brought into this. Any skin color is capable of believing anything they want. Just an opinion from this dark complected caucasian who's darker than most of his still-living family members. I've even always been attracted to ladies with a permanent tan. My grandparents would pitch a fit, but what do I care? LOL

>Nothing wrong with liking your religion, but it is wrong to bash others>
As I already pointed out, christianity has been equally discussed, or "bashed".

I have nothing whatsoever against anyone of any religion. People are people the world over. If we don't all agree, we don't have to take it personally. I even have a cousin who joined the Amish community. After 20+ yrs he still doesn't even agree with them 100%.
 
  • #31
i wasnt actually calling you a racist, i was just trying to show...ok its one of those things that sounds different than it reads haha.

Just a touchy subject i guess...
 
  • #32
If anyone has any questions about Islam, feel free to ask.
 
  • #33
I do, and I'll try not to stick my foot in my mouth. :-D

Where do the extremists get the kill non-believers thing? Probably from the same place so-called "christians" bomb abortion clinics, carrying things out of context too far?
 
  • #34
Don't feel too bad, that last question I put up is THE question of religion, of all religions. If not faith that yours is the one then where is the objective proof that any one is better or truer than another. Buddhists, Muslims and any others most likely have the same convictions that you do of your subjective religious experiences and results to prayers. If they didn't they probably wouldn't continue with that line of belief for very long. And there really is room for everybody, even us toenail worshipers! ;)

There's nothing wrong with admitting to faith, so long as it is not taken to the extremes that impose on anyone else's faith. And that's why I bought this book, it looks at them all equally.

I'm not Ahmad but I'll chime in just cos...
I believe the ministers of religions are the ones who drive all extremism, whether it be Osama Bin Laden driving Al Qaida or Rev. Donald Wildmon driving anti-McDonalds and anti-gay sentiments. There are the Operation Rescue Christians who have their own ministers who likely drive such sentiments within their own sect. A good title for a book on religion would be "The Joy of Sects". :)
 
  • #35
It was just the equality of Christ to buddha, etc. I didn't take offense though. BTW, my best friend in the whole world is Cherokee (and she's purdy :) and she's a Christian instead of a native religion practicer. Anyone can practice anything. I just don't have to agree. :) ... and you don't have to agree with me. Free will is a gift. I'll believe the Bible, but I won't cram it down your throat.
 
  • #36
I do, and I'll try not to stick my foot in my mouth. :-D

Where do the extremists get the kill non-believers thing? Probably from the same place so-called "christians" bomb abortion clinics, carrying things out of context too far?


There are quotes in the Qu'ran that say "Kill the nonbelievers when you find them", but this was talking about the pagan Arabs who were trying to kill the Prophet Muhammad (SAW). Many Republicans take these quotes and say that Islam is a violent religion (which it's not)


The reason why some Muslims perform terrorist attacks is because of things like America supporting Israel (Israel is cruel to the Muslims living there), and carpet bombing Afghanistan and Pakistan and stuff. Not to mention America runs Guantanamo Bay ("Sh it-whole" in Spanish), which is basically a concentration camp for Muslims.

These terrorist attacks are committed in retaliation of the injustices done to Muslims around the world, not because they believe in martydom or 77 virgins (which is a false stereotype. There is no such thing as 77 virgins)
 
  • #37
>There is no such thing as 77 virgins>
Not in today's world! LOL Made me grin. :)

I don't doubt the meanness, but why do Muslims wants Israel's land? Would be like Canada coming to take Montana or us going and taking Manitoba wouldn't it?
 
  • #38
Ahmad, which denomination (if that's the word) of Islam are you and where is your family from? I used to be fascinated by Sufism, but never considered myself one.
 
  • #39
>There is no such thing as 77 virgins>
Not in today's world! LOL Made me grin. :)

I don't doubt the meanness, but why do Muslims wants Israel's land? Would be like Canada coming to take MT wouldn't it?


Well, the Muslims were already living there when the UN decided to make it a Jewish country after the Holocaust. Today, the Israeli Army bulldozes Muslim homes (occasionally with the house still occupied), and treats the Muslims like crap.


A very similar example is the Native Americans and the settlers. The Native Americans were living in America, when the settlers came and said it was their God-given right to move in and try to wipe out the Native Americans.

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  • #40
Ahmad, which denomination (if that's the word) of Islam are you and where is your family from? I used to be fascinated by Sufism, but never considered myself one.


I'm actually a convert to Islam. I've been following Islam since about 2006. I'm half Native American (Ojibwe tribe).

I follow Sunni Islam, the Hanafi sect. However, I prefer to be known as a Muslim, not Sunni.


As for Sufis, the rest of us don't really like them. They seem to be too mystical and are almost like hippies. That's basically the best I can describe them.
 
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