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Thread: Blatantantly political discussion, but...

  1. #41
    rattler's Avatar
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    Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital, and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved.
    how does Obama's wanting to "spread the wealth around"(his words) by taxing those he feels make to much not fall under socialist tendencies?
    cervid serial killer
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  2. #42
    Nooblet Botanicadenta's Avatar
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    As far as Abortion goes, I don't believe anyone with male genitalia deserves any say in the matter.
    Why not? After all, those parts contribute half the DNA to the baby.
    Now see, I'll come out and say that this is pure sexist rhetoric. As a male, my DNA is not worth the opinions as to whether or not a woman decided to possibly mutilate her body irreparably, While abortion is an extremely catastrophic operation, no man should have a say whether or not a woman has the right to make this decision.

    By this token, you are saying that a **** victim can not abort without the consent of her rapist, or a dying woman who happens to fall out of favor with her impregnator has to die because the man thinks that, children being the future and all, it's okay for the woman to die just so the infant can survive and the man gets the best of both worlds.

    Real cute.

    On a second note, I'm curious to know where all this socialist hate comes from, really. The French seem to have it worked out fairly well. Education's free from K through masters degree and nobody pays for cancer treatment. To quote the doctor they interviewed from "Sicko", if you want more than one Saab and a bigger house, maybe you should consider a different career. I've had my experience with American doctors peeling dollars from my wallet for something I diagnosed myself when they offered absolutely no answers whatsoever. Not to mention a tumor surgery that cost thousands of dollars just to reemerge 2 months later bigger than before. I don't think doctors should be allowed to capitalize on sickness and pain... Look around, the evidence of such causing the failings of the US medical system are everywhere. If human life is so damn important, don't you think we shouldn't have to pay to preserve it in light of the unforseen?

  3. #43
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Botanicadenta View Post
    Now see, I'll come out and say that this is pure sexist rhetoric. As a male, my DNA is not worth the opinions as to whether or not a woman decided to possibly mutilate her body irreparably, While abortion is an extremely catastrophic operation, no man should have a say whether or not a woman has the right to make this decision.

    By this token, you are saying that a **** victim can not abort without the consent of her rapist, or a dying woman who happens to fall out of favor with her impregnator has to die because the man thinks that, children being the future and all, it's okay for the woman to die just so the infant can survive and the man gets the best of both worlds.
    If I impregnate a female type person and the relationship goes sour there are two options available, according to the laws of the land.

    1) The female of the species decides to keep the baby and furthermore has the right to file for a paternity suit, thus making me responsible for my actions. I have no choice.

    2) The female of the species decides to have an abortion, thus leaving me out of the equation and taking the life of an unborn baby (the very life who is truly in a life and death situation).

    Why does the outcome of the baby have to determine whether I am liable or not? Why does my contribution have diametrically opposed actions, depending upon the outcome of the baby?

    Why does the baby not have a choice when he or she is the most affected by the outcome?

    Why is an unborn baby referred to as an unborn baby when the baby gets to live and referred to as a fetus or tissue when its outcome is death?

    Why does a doctor turn a blind eye to the hippocratic oath and render it a hypocrytical oath when he or she performs an abortion?

    Why isn't an umborn baby considered life when the definition of life is:

    Definitions

    Conventional definition: The concensus is that that life is a characteristic of organisms that exhibit all or most of the following phenomena:[8][9]

    1. Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, electrolyte concentration or sweating to reduce temperature.
    2. Organization: Being composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.
    3. Metabolism: Consumption of energy by converting chemicals and energy into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.
    4. Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of synthesis than catabolism. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter. The particular species begins to multiply and expand as the evolution continues to flourish.
    5. Adaptation: The ability to change over a period of time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of metabolized substances, and external factors present.
    6. Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism to external chemicals, to complex reactions involving all the senses of higher animals. A response is often expressed by motion, for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun (Phototropism and chemotaxis.
    7. Reproduction: The ability to produce new organisms. Reproduction can be the division of one cell to form two new cells. Usually the term is applied to the production of a new individual (either asexually, from a single parent organism, or sexually, from at least two differing parent organisms), although strictly speaking it also describes the production of new cells in the process of growth.

  4. #44
    rattler's Avatar
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    aint touching the abortion issue other than except that it takes 2 ppl to make a baby so i believe the father of the unborn baby has a say......i DO NOT like late term or in particular partial birth abortions and think they should be outlawed unless the physical health of the mother is in question....on abortions in the first trimester or so i dont have as much issue with them though any gal i got pregnant even on accident i would do everything in my power to prevent an abortion from happening, if the mother doesnt want the kid i will take 100% responsibility for the child and the mother never has to hear from me or the kid if thats what she wants.....however i aint going to go out of my way to stop some who wants to have an abortion that i dont know or dont know their circumstances.....

    as far as my views on socialized health care.....i am FOR helping out ppl that attempt to help themselves........however i aint for giving anymore welfare hand outs to the leeches that are perfectly healthy and perfectly capable of holding down a job but think that flipping burgers at McDonalds is benieth them......revamp the current welfare program and i am willing to take a look at partial socialized health care for those that bust their **** and try......however i aint interested in helping out the bottom feeders with my money....if the choice is the current system plus socialized health care or the current system with out it ill choose no "free" health care......
    cervid serial killer
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    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

  5. #45
    Metal King
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    Health Care in both our countries would be relatively cheap if the pharmaceutical companies got raked over the colas like they so richly deserve.

    Having so many patented chemicals in the system makes the price overall swell to ridiculous proportions.

    Some kind of enforced philanthropy should be adopted in both the US and Canada- our healthcare system would cost a fraction of what it does were that to happen
    Da Growlist

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  6. #46
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    Jim, the ethics of abortion, pro & con, are hopelessly murky. That's why there's so much disagreement and also why people can agree/disagree for completely different reasons. My opinion is that it is immoral to fight over abortion while being unwilling to do something about the thousands of children who die every day because the economic system we've imposed on the world doesn't offer solutions for simple drinking water/sanitation problems.

    As for raking the pharmaceutical companies over colas, Mabudon, are those diet or regular colas? I'd hate to see the companies get any fatter.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. #47
    Metal King
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    so I nail "pharmaceutical" and fail on "coals", sometimes a guy just can't win

    I would prefer some kind of extra-strength colas tho, they got plenty of drugs to treat the jitters
    Da Growlist

    "You don't need a license to drive a sandwich"-Spongebob Squarepants

  8. #48
    Got Drosera? Indiana Gardener's Avatar
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    My opinion is that it is immoral to fight over abortion while being unwilling to do something about the thousands of children who die every day because the economic system we've imposed on the world doesn't offer solutions for simple drinking water/sanitation problems.

    That's why I regularly give to global outreaches. Not some of the ministries that get on tv and beg for your $, but real independently checked organizations.

    One of my problems with abortions, is knowing that there are willing families out there who do care and do adopt.

    My aunt and uncle adopted a little girl many yrs ago. She is now all grown and out away from home. It took a very long time for a child to come there way after being put on the list. Soon after receiving their baby girl, they applied for another child so that my cousin wouldn't be an only sibling. The adoption agency basically told them in so many words that the list had grown incredibly long and the number of approved families far outnumbered the children available.

    They waited for years until my cousin was almost grown before another child became available to them so far down the list that they felt they were past their prime and what age they felt they could give quality care to and keep up with a youngster. So they never got a second child.

    So when someone says there are more children than what people are willing to adopt, I just don't see it (here in the US at least). I know how difficult it was for my aunt and uncle and saw how heartbreaking it is to want a child; heartbreaking to the point of almost breaking down when anyone else in the family announced a pregnancy, and then to be told there aren't any available because the list of qualified parents is longer than the list of children.

    To go back and forth between the ideology that it's tissue, no it's a baby, no it's tissue... does not change anything. Your opinion does not change the molecular makeup of that young life one bit. To put one's own life ahead of another in that instance is selfish and repulsive. I do not know one parent who would put their life before their child's.

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