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Thread: Obama's prime-time ad skips over budget realities.

  1. #9

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    The information from my previous post is taken from the Obama health care plan and the McCain health care plan as described on their respective websites. If you discount that information as being unusable, please indicate the sources that you use to make decisons about the candidates.

  2. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiana Gardener View Post
    That's because they're both politicians! LOL It's just a matter of picking the lesser evil. Right now, I favor the one who isn't looking to drastically change or modify the Second Amendment. A stark contrast to the other's past voting record.
    Wait a minute I thought we were talking about budgets here. Is Obama going to make money by taking away the second amendment? If not you brought up something completely irrelevant in an attempt to change the subject. Please explain to me how the second amendment changes the situation with how our presidential candidates will handle the budget?
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  3. #11
    Got Drosera? Indiana Gardener's Avatar
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    I'm not changing the subject. All of the issues go hand in hand because they have a direct influence on the morale of the nation. Make waves and people quit spending. It's like going to a restaurant and ordering water, but saying hold the wet. It doesn't work that way. You can't have liquid water without the wet. Can't separate one from the other.

    It's not just about guns, it's the major change all at once, in any area. As long as that change is good, ok. But if it negatively affects the morale of segments of the population, spending will go down. And you need spending to keep an economy afloat.

    Now here is something else that caught my eye, it looks great on the outside, and I'm sure he thinks it's good too...
    "Supports federal programs to protect rural economy. (May 2004)"
    http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Ob...dget_+_Economy

    But it was either Dateline or 20/20 that did an investigation a while back into the impact of farm subsidies on rural areas. The rural districts actually did better without them than with them. I forget the data behind it, but it was well documented.

    EDIT: I found it online...
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2...6050559&page=1

    "This year, Congress passed another $300 billion farm bill. President Bush vetoed this farm bill -- twice. Sen. John McCain opposed it, calling it "bloated legislation that will do more harm than good." But Sen. Barack Obama supported it."

    ......

    "Actually, a government study found that the more farm aid a county got, the more likely it was to lose population.

    Why would that be? Because subsides make it harder for smaller farmers to compete.

    'Farm subsidies go to very, very wealthy farmers, not the ma and pa farm,' economist George Mason University's Walter Williams said. 'It's these huge agribusinesses that get the big subsidies."

    It's another vote for big government and big corporation. Not a vote for thriving communities. And it doesn't redistribute the wealth as he's famous for saying. It makes the wealthy wealthier.

    I do have family members who farm, and they get no subsidies. They aren't rich or even well off and do have to work at another job away from home. While they have to do that, the huge agribusinesses are getting subsidies. Though I don't personaly farm, I still hold the idea that anyone who eats should consider those who produces their food. Without them, you don't eat. I would rather my food comes from smaller farms than large factory farms. The approach is more hands on and food is more easily monitored.

    "Bloated legislation" doesn't help those who need it and it's clearly a part of Obama's economic policy. So he can give the middle class all the tax cuts he claims he would, but giving $300 billion to large corporations hurts, not helps, middle class rural communities that are the bread basket and backbone of our nation.

  4. #12

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    So what now you want to go back to budgets? are we discussing budgets and the economy or the second amendment? Also you are still making a six one half dozen the other argument. To try to say Obama is more for big business and McCain is going to have economic policies that help the middle class is laughable. You are aware he is a Republican right? He is proposing a 200 billion dollar tax cut including 4 billion to big oil companies, one of which just set the record for the most profit in a quarter for any US company ever, and you want to say Obama is for big business. As for bloated spending the unlimited (most likely 4 years +) commitment in Iraq that McCain is standing for is going to cost us as the current rate(10 billion/month) up to 480 billion dollars over his presidency.That seems like a pretty frivolous waste of money to me, unless of course you are in the defense industry in which case you will be in place to make a small fortune. Again as I stated before both of these candidates are going to deepen the national debt, one through spending one through cutting income.

    What irrelevant topic would you like to bring up this time, abortion maybe? I mean since this topic which explicitly uses the word budget in the title clearly shouldnt stick to the topic which it claims to discuss.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  5. #13
    Got Drosera? Indiana Gardener's Avatar
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    >What irrelevant topic would you like to bring up this time>

    I'm sorry that you fail to see how policies regarding distributing $300 billion to large companies pushing small business under is irrelevant to the budget. If you don't wish to consider those communities, I guess you can grow and produce 100% of your own food. Might be worth doing anyway as fewer and larger producers make more food and will be able to ask any price they see fit.

    Since you don't see how it will affect the general public, look at it this way; more smaller producers = more competition for lower prices. Fewer produces with huge companies = less competition, a cornered market, and higher food prices.


    >I mean since this topic which explicitly uses the word budget in the title clearly shouldnt stick to the topic which it claims to discuss.>

    I did state my view on the subject. The topic clearly says, "Obama's prime-time ad skips over budget realities." Which it did, and this is one part it left out. You didn't even address the issue of the $300 billion in spending (yes, part of the US budget) which didn't help those who need it, you just went on to bash McCain. Which is fine if he's who we were talking about, but the thread is about Obama's skip over budget realities.

    Did you even read the entire article and see how useless that legislature was? People who own suburban homes on x-farm land are receiving the subsidies for not even farming anything. One lady interviewed said she never even questioned the check she receives every year, but it's nice. The big companies are also receiving subsidies. The only ones left out of receiving anything from the budget are the ones who actually need it.

    This isn't just in the past in 2004 when the decision was made, it's still going on. This is perfectly relevant to the topic. $300 billion in useless spending from the budget was skipped over.

  6. #14

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    I addressed the fact that McCain is connected to the defense industry, which if you look into is just as corrupt and bloated as the Farm burea is. I agree that the farming subsidies program is a joke and actually makes the process of farming more rediculous and encourages farmers to do things like plant tons of corn and then pays them the next year not to plant it instead of encouraging diversification of crop production. My point in what I have addressed here is that McCain creates the same kind of problems that Obama does just through a different method. Yes I didnt address that one bill you brought up but you didn't address the tax cuts McCain is going to enact to help the extremely large corporations. I was just presenting a counter point to your example of Obama spending money friverously with the way McCain is going to reduce the income of the country by cutting taxes for corporations which clearly is someone being for big business more than the farm bill which was mismanaged was. Plus to me what people say they plan to do is more important in my mind.

    This all really makes me wish we had a viable third party here in the US.

    And I will admit I got a little over sarcastic with the end of my last post and I apologize for that.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  7. #15
    Got Drosera? Indiana Gardener's Avatar
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    >but you didn't address the tax cuts McCain is going to enact to help the extremely large corporations.>

    Sometimes I leave things up to being implied. I'm bad at that. My attempt at that was where I said Obama can make all of the tax cuts he says he will, but... (as though McCain won't for the average guy). Maybe I would make a good politician! LOL

    Perhaps Obama's spending on big corporations and McCains tax cuts for them is just two sides of the same coin.


    >This all really makes me wish we had a viable third party here in the US. >

    We both agree there!

    >And I will admit I got a little over sarcastic with the end of my last post and I apologize for that.>

    And I for the 2nd amendment, but I really do see things like that maybe (perhaps indirectly) affecting the morale of the country, affecting the economy, and ultimately the budget because a budget is only good as long as they funds are there. Maybe just my point of view.

  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch View Post
    Anyone who takes any campaign ad at face value for either side should be slapped.
    Good point.

    The Republican Party, historically known for being fiscally responsible (erroneously?), has lost all vestigial credibility in this area with their record over the past 8 years. Now, in the twilight of their rule, they've turned our capitalist economy into a save-the-large-corporations-at-any-cost socialistic haven. Scary stuff.

    If the polls have any credibility, we're about to enter a diametrically-opposing, ideological morass with a Democratic chief executive and Democratic Party majority in both bodies of congress. Scary stuff.

    Have we lost the opportunity to have a moderate, middle-ground government - one where the fringe-elements of the right & the left are unhappy but the big lump in the population bell-curve is reasonably satisfied (& employed)?
    All the best,
    Ron
    You must do the thing you think you cannot do. --- Eleanor Roosevelt

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