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Thread: Special Comment: Proposition 8

  1. #17
    War. War never changes. Est's Avatar
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    Even if you think that majority is wrong (and I do in this case)
    what gives judges the right to over-ride the majority??
    Protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
    Heck, if there was a vote that passed on anything else that is not in the spirit of the Constitution, I'd expect them to overturn it.
    Note: I don't support the arbitrary passing of laws which circumvent Democracy as we have it set up, but if there is a Prop that is passed that is inherently illegal/unconstitutional, I want the people who know (and the people who we have elected) to make sure that it isn't instated.

    I can see each side of the coin, but voting Yes to show those dern judges what's what is poor reasoning at best. If something's blatantly wrong, I'd want my lower courts to take care of it so that the Supreme Court doesn't need to waste it's time one it (even if it's "just" the State SC.)

    Equality is a myth, it was never true, it will never be. Take off the pink glasses.
    You are certainly among the most jaded individuals whom I've ever encountered. Just because inequality exists, we should accept it? Proliferate it? Or is that just when it's convenient? What about if next time around there's a Prop that calls for the banning of Christianity (or all religions) from the state of California? Do you just sit and say "Shucks- inequality exists, so it's no skin off of my nose."

    It goes back to your comments in this thread about the death penalty. Sure, you love the death penalty, torture, whatever it takes so long as it's your values that are upheld. What about when the tables turn and it's your values that are being persecuted?

    Something worth thinking about.
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  2. #18
    Capslock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimka View Post
    Equality is a myth
    Not for long, Dimka. Not for long.

    Capslock
    Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium

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  3. #19
    SirKristoff is a poopiehead Ozzy's Avatar
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    How about putting all the effort you put into gay right into cancer research? Eh?
    Peace! Love! Equality! Caring! Come on!
    Why don't YOU put the effort that you put in to hating a group of people into finding a cure for cancer? Why can't you just let other people live their own life?

  4. #20
    War. War never changes. Est's Avatar
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    And out of curiosity:

    Is there anyone out there who isn't familiar with the Proposition 8? We're going on the premise that everyone has heard of it, is that a fair assumption? I'm not sure how much water it's stirred outside of Cali (I assume it's a fair amount considering how many people know about it.) Anyone need a rundown?
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  5. #21
    BigBella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Est View Post
    And out of curiosity:

    Is there anyone out there who isn't familiar with the Proposition 8? We're going on the premise that everyone has heard of it, is that a fair assumption? I'm not sure how much water it's stirred outside of Cali (I assume it's a fair amount considering how many people know about it.) Anyone need a rundown?
    Proposition Eight was the most expensive proposition ever submitted to the voters. Millions were spent on both sides of the issue and it received plenty of national news coverage -- from Santa Cruz, CA (my hometown) to New York -- even Brooklyn. Even friends of mine overseas were following it . . .
    “Sì perché l'autorità dell'opinione di mille nelle scienze non val per una scintilla di ragione di un solo . . ."

    -- Galileo "Biff" Galilei

  6. #22
    Sundewist Dimka's Avatar
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    The whole argument about cancer research was a joke. It can be played both ways thus is completely irrelevant.
    Look guys, I am not saying inequality is right, or they way it should be. I'm just saying its the way things are, and it'll never change. Of course children playing together feel equal, but then they grow up and grow apart and some look down on others. I seriously doubt it'll ever change.
    It is hard to always be a human being... people get in the way.

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  7. #23
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    I'm just saying its the way things are, and it'll never change.
    With that sort of defeatist attitude, it won't. That's for sure.

    On the other hand, they also said we'd never split the atom.

    Look, even if a goal, in it's purest form, seems unattainable, why should still not reach for it?

    I strive to be the perfect martial artist. That is unattainable. No one is perfect. However, it doesn't stop me from practicing and getting better.

    So true equality (which, IMHO, would mean it exists in the hearts of all) may not ever be reached because humans are flawed.....we may at least still reach LEGAL equality, where all are protected equally under the law. That IS an attainable goal.
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  8. #24
    Sundewist Dimka's Avatar
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    Ok guys.
    After receiving a barrage of angry pms, I think there has been a misunderstanding.
    When I said that Christianity does not stand against killing, I did not mean that christians can just go around killing anyone they please. The comment was in response to the guy in the video saying "If your God is love, then spread the love and happiness" or something like that.
    What I was saying is that even though God is love, it does not mean "let everyone do what makes them happy". There must be boundaries.
    Raping children makes pedophiles happy. So is it ok? Should be just let them? I bet it brings a lot of joy into their hearts, but that does not make it right!
    Killing makes murderers happy. So should we just let them?
    Inflicting pain onto others makes sadists happy....

    Equality is an illusion. A pleasant, but unattainable goal.
    If everyone was equal, there would be complete anarchy. Law was made by people equal to me, so why should I conform to it if it is equal to my own ideals? Or is it higher than me? That makes us unequal. Or why listen to my boss? He is just the same as I am. See, there has to be hierarchy in everything or else there will be nothing.
    We are born equal, but what we grow up to be is not. One grows up to be MD, and another - a drug addicted rapist. How equal were they as babies, and how equal are they when they are 40?
    It is hard to always be a human being... people get in the way.

    An education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease. It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
    - Terry Pratchett

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